Portable Hole as a trap

[Earthbound Angel]

Hi Everyone:

Suppose a party is trapped in a Portable Hole and managed to escape by cleverly using a Bag of Holding (really entertaining but long story). How much XP would you award?

 

[javcs]

Hi Everyone:

Suppose a party is trapped in a Portable Hole and managed to escape by cleverly using a Bag of Holding (really entertaining but long story). How much XP would you award?

Um ... if they go into a portable hole, but have a bag of holding with them ... bad stuff happens. I can never remember which order is the explosion and which is the singularity.

Taking an extradimensional space into another extradimensional space is, by the rules always a bad idea. However, in the rules the reason is only specified for portable hole+bag of holding and vice versa.

 

[aboyd]

Page 248 of the DMG: "If a Bag of Holding is placed within a Portable Hole, a rift to the Astral Plane is torn in space: Bag and Hole alike are sucked into the void and forever lost."

In addition, also from the DMG: "It contains enough air to supply one medium creature or two small creatures for 10 minutes."

Those characters are forever lost, and will suffocate & die after 10 minutes.

So, I'd say no XP. They killed themselves; they don't deserve XP for suicide.

 

[irdeggman]

Page 248 of the DMG: "If a Bag of Holding is placed within a Portable Hole, a rift to the Astral Plane is torn in space: Bag and Hole alike are sucked into the void and forever lost."

In addition, also from the DMG: "It contains enough air to supply one medium creature or two small creatures for 10 minutes."

Those characters are forever lost, and will suffocate & die after 10 minutes.

So, I'd say no XP. They killed themselves; they don't deserve XP for suicide.

I agree.

This is the one condition that is specifically addressed in the rules. So per RAW there is no DM judgement call on this situation.

Other combinaitons of extradimensional spaces are subject to DM call though - just not this one. Well, actually all things are subject to DM call - but this case would become a house-rules since it would deviate from the RAW.

 

[Herzog]

ah. but the DMG does not explain what happens to the contents of the bag, nor of the contents of the portable hole.

it does not specify from where the rift to the astral plane is formed.
it mentions the bag and hole being sucked into 'the void', not being clear whether this refers to the astral plane or some other destination.

it does not specify whether the rift is temporary or permanent.

enough room for DM judgement, I would say.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

The implication is that your stuff is going to be in the bag, not you. Being tossed through a rift into the Astral Plane is not itself deadly; though being there long might be. I'd probably give some kind of award as if it were a trap of the appropriate CR; at last CR equal to the party's level. Without knowing the full situation I couldn't really make a call. It might have been a brilliant move, or not, and that would affect how I'd reward it.

 

[irdeggman]

The text specifies the following:

If a bag of holding is placed within a portable hole, a rift to the Astral Plane is torn in the space: Bag and hole alike are sucked into the void and forever lost.

If a portable hole is placed within a bag of holding, it opens a gate to the Astral Plane. The hole, bag and any creatures within a 10-foot radius are drawn there, destroying the portable hole and bag of holding in the porcess.

Also

Bag of holding: This appears to be a common cloth sack about 2 feet by 4 feet in size.

So the outside of the bag does not stretch only the inside. Thus the opening of the bag is roughly limited to a 2 foot diameter (the 2 feet dimension). So unless a character is smaller than that they can't fit into a bag of holding at all. All bags of holding appear to be the same size from the outside.

Characters can fit inside a portable hole - in fact the text talks about how much air can be stored inside in relation to the number and size of the creatures stored in the hole.

But you specifically cannot have a bag of holding inside a portable hole without them both being lost forever.

If the characters are within the hole when they with the bag then they are lost with the hole since all of its contents should follow it. It is not like turning a bag of holding inside out (which is covered already) - both items are detroyed.

 

[Grithfang]

What the text is describing is that the items, and their contents, would be equivalent to dropping a pin in an infinite hayfield. The is no possible chance that a human would have the time or resources to find it, thus it is lost forever.

It in no way states or implies that the characters are automatically killed, or that they or the items even take damage.

 

[aboyd]

EDIT: I can't follow the conversation, can't tell if the discussion is about the rift scenario or the destruction scenario, so I'm going to delete my text.

 

[JacktheRabbit]

Used to have a DM who abused the bag in a hole trick. It is assumed that everything in the bag is lost just like the bag, though there is no mention that the bag or any of its contents are destroyed.

So what is a Lich has his phylactery within the bag. It gets thrown who knows where and lost forever. Can the Lich be slain now? What happens if you do suceed in destroying the Lich's body.