Posted review of WoD2 core rulebook.

[Funksaw]

Enworld doesn't have a spot for WOD2 yet, so I'm just giving you a link:

http://www.readybb.com/phantomzone/viewtopic.php?t=449

 

[teitan]

hey funky, nice review but I do have an issue with it. Your discussion of the combat mechanic falls apart when you actually think about what the one die roll represents: damage. It isn't a to hit roll at all. The actions taken by both parties determine the modifiers to damage because the addition and subtraction of dice represents the attack and dodge as opposed to the die roll itself. It rewards descriptive play as opposed to encouraging "I want to attack it" types opf mentality.

Jason

 

[ecliptic]

Sigh I actually had hopes for it, but alot of the things make me not want to play it.

 

[Funksaw]

hey funky, nice review but I do have an issue with it. Your discussion of the combat mechanic falls apart when you actually think about what the one die roll represents: damage. It isn't a to hit roll at all. The actions taken by both parties determine the modifiers to damage because the addition and subtraction of dice represents the attack and dodge as opposed to the die roll itself. It rewards descriptive play as opposed to encouraging "I want to attack it" types opf mentality.

Jason

Yeah, but, I don't think the intended effect and the actual in-play effect will match up. Put another way, it's got alot of the problems that Armor class does - is it because the character is missing, because the character is hitting the armor, etc. I think Storyteller Trinity, for all it's flaws, did a reasonably good job of letting the dice tell the GM more information about a scene without requiring the GM to know alot of complex tables. You can, if you wish, go the Rolemaster route and have the dice tell you everything you need to know, but that's rolemaster... essentially, here's the main problem. If the rules are tools and artificial limitations to telling the story in order to force characters to act creatively, the dice are, in essence, information. The more information that the dice reveal, the better not just the GM but everyone has a grasp of what just happened.

Outside of the whole abstraction issue, you have to admit, it's still pretty wonky - if that roll represents damage, instead of hitting, then every attempt made, essentially, hits, while instead, if the roll represents to-hit, then every successful hit inflicts damage (which I think I can get behind.)

 

[teitan]

I don't think it is wonky at all. If all that is rolled is damage then of course a success is going to mean a hit. The dice do determine the final outcome but much like in D&D etc. YOU, the GM, determine what happens in the event of a miss or hit so in that respect it is no different than D&D or hit points. I don't think it is abstract at all in the sense you are referring to and the way actions are handled is brilliant. The player has total control in combat so now the only way a player can screw up his character really is bad roleplaying.

Jason

 

[Funksaw]

What I mean is that even an attack which scores no damage is a "hit."

And I didn't like this abstraction when it appeared in D&D as hitpoints either.

 

[teitan]

No it isn't, its a miss. I thought that was self explanatory, if you do no damage then you didn't hit was the general idea behind the system.

Jason

 

[Stone Dog]

That was the impression I got too, teitan. It is the storytelling system after all, a miss is however the ST wants it to be described.

If you want to emphesise the inherant toughness of a thing then the attack just bounces off or whatever is appropriate. I like the descriptions of knifings in the blue book sinking into a creature and coming back with no blood. That might as well be a miss as long as no health boxes were checked off (though it was probably just bashing damage to a vampire or something). If a thing is just too damn fast to hit then describe it like that.
I also see that the bigger the dice pool is the closer a miss would be. If a player is rolling two dice and misses then the attack would just go wide, but if the player is still rolling 8 dice after mods and misses then something like "you see the thinest trail of blood appear on the thugs face as you swing your knife. (thug fails wits+empathy) The bruiser belives that you missed on purpose and (thug fails willpower) flees from your <ST sarcasm>133+ ninja sk1llz.</ST sarcasm>

If I wanted a realistic system I sure as hell wouldn't be playing anything that White Wolf puts out, although with GURPS having a 4th edition and WoD hitting the reset button I am hoping to have another pairing of the two.

 

[poilbrun]

I tend to agree on the fact that I had high hopes, but reading reviews, I'm kinda disappointed...