Power Armor and Mecha Tech Levels

[garrowolf]

These are the tech levels from my system that I think would apply to Mecha and Power Armor.
I can't remember if Battletech and Heavy Gear had gravitic tech. Some anime seem to put power armor in the Cyber age but I think that they would mostly go into Fusion Age because of the higher tech level. Many of the power armors in most anime are higher tech then the rest of the tech level because of some advanced inventor. I would put Ghost in the Shell Stand Alone Complex in the Fusion Age because of the advanced cyborgs and multiped tanks.

Any ideas or opinions?

TL 7: Cyber Age
Advances in nanotechnology, biology, and computers open up cybernetic interfaces between humanity and our tools. Power armor develops. Various kinds of fuel cells become common. Large number of development in robotics. Droids become common. Dangerous viruses are explored. Personality uploads are now possible but it doesn't have the spark of the original. The mind is being explored and abused. VR is common.


TL 8: Fusion Age
Heavy early space travel explores the solar system. Space is still the realm of megacorps and nations. Mechs become a common combat vehicles. Large scale colonization of the oceans. Seaquest style vehicles and hyper-cavitation ships become common. Bioroids so close to human that you can't easily tell are common. Genies are being engineered. Cloning organs is common. Brain in a jar tech is available. Animal uplift explored.
Single stage to orbit vehicles become common. Considerable number of space stations are built. Wars expand to other planets. Underground cities develop on other planets and moons. Habits are the new village.


FTL Tech


TL 9: Early Gravitic Age
Contra-gravity and artificial gravity open up space to the world. Humanity truly lives in space and by this point more people live in space then on the home world. Gravity control allows for inertial compensators and inertial displacement drives. Ships can move much faster without the burden of inertia. Prolong is developed.
Asteroid cities hold most of the people now. Terraforming is being carried out on several planets in the solar system. Huge space stations and arcologies are being built using the contragrav technologies. Things have an enormous scale to them now.
Ships travel up to 100gs of acceleration. Early Hyperdrives allow humanity to move out into the galaxy. Huge colony ships are used to carry colonization out into the nearby systems. FTL communications by hyperspace relays.

TL 10 Hyperdrive Age
Star Wars, Narn, Centauri, Holograms are physical, travel to other solar systems is every day thing, FTL 3.


TL 11 Gravitic Age
Minbari, antimatter as a normal power source, access natural jump points to go into wormholes, early time travel through time wormholes (uncontrolled destination), FTL 4

 

[Stormonu]

You mention in TL 7 "Large number of development in robotics. Droids become common." - what does this mean? Can robotics mimic human movement but not thought/emotions? What is the difference between a droid and a robot?

Also, Battletech (as far as I remember) does not have access to gravity-based technology. The farthest reaching ships (Jumpships) use a combination of solar sails/fusion engines to make "hyperspace jumps" of 30 LY per jump. I can't find more info at the moment, but it sounds like a space-fold sort of system (somewhat like the Macross/Zentradi used).

 

[jefgorbach]

Also, Battletech (as far as I remember) does not have access to gravity-based technology. The farthest reaching ships (Jumpships) use a combination of solar sails/fusion engines to make "hyperspace jumps" of 30 LY per jump. I can't find more info at the moment, but it sounds like a space-fold sort of system (somewhat like the Macross/Zentradi used).

JumpShip - BattleTechWiki - Sarna.net Classic BattleTech Wiki shows you're correct ... the Kearny-Fuchida Drive warps space in such a manner that the attached ship(s) are transferred between two established jump points upto 30Lys away in a matter of seconds; after which the drive is slowly recharged over 6-9 days via a solar-sail. Presumably both limitations reflect the game's current PL and would increase accordingly.

 

[garrowolf]

You mention in TL 7 "Large number of development in robotics. Droids become common." - what does this mean? Can robotics mimic human movement but not thought/emotions? What is the difference between a droid and a robot?

Full AIs occur at TL 8 Fusion Age

Also, Battletech (as far as I remember) does not have access to gravity-based technology. The farthest reaching ships (Jumpships) use a combination of solar sails/fusion engines to make "hyperspace jumps" of 30 LY per jump. I can't find more info at the moment, but it sounds like a space-fold sort of system (somewhat like the Macross/Zentradi used).

So except for the Jumpdrive it would be Fusion Age then. I decided to base my Tech Levels on developments of gravitic technology instead of on FTL tech because once you take the FTL systems out of the equation the Tech Levels fell into place smoothly. Besides many of the FTL system in alot of stories came from Aliens or an incredible inventor.

 

[garrowolf]

okay I decided that most of the power armor and Heavy gear mechs would be Fusion age. Battletech would be Fusion age as well but I don't think I'm going to do a complete translation on that. Bubblegum Crisis Hardsuits would be TL 9. Macross and the comic book version of Ironman (with forcefields and unibeams) would be tl 10.

That way the power armors and mecha start out weaker and bulky and become sleeker and more powerful.

What do you guys think?

 

[Glade Riven]

I'd put Ghost in the Shell as late cyber/early fusion followed by Appleseed as mid-fusion (despite the lack of an emphasis on space travel). Granted, the biggest difference between Ghost in the Shell and Appleseed is pre-super world war (somehow without nukes) and post-super world war.

Gundam is hard to place because of variations between series as well as a whole God-Mech complex. When the creators restrain themselves, I'd say late fusion, early gravity. Otherwise, TL 10.

 

[garrowolf]

I'd put Ghost in the Shell as late cyber/early fusion followed by Appleseed as mid-fusion (despite the lack of an emphasis on space travel). Granted, the biggest difference between Ghost in the Shell and Appleseed is pre-super world war (somehow without nukes) and post-super world war.

Gundam is hard to place because of variations between series as well as a whole God-Mech complex. When the creators restrain themselves, I'd say late fusion, early gravity. Otherwise, TL 10.

I haven't watched Gundam but I agree on the other two.

 

[TwinBahamut]

I can't say that I agree with either the tech level system in general or these tech levels in particular, so that may color my advice, but here are my general suggestions.

Cyber Age: The classic style of four meter tall mechs, such as the Lost Planet Vital Suit, the Code Geass Knightmare Frame, the VOTOMS Armored Trooper, or the mechs seen in the Ghost in the Shell and Appleseed anime would be feasible. They almost entirely use conventional ballistic weapons and armor. Most use sophisticated battery technology or conventional fuels rather than in-built reactors.

Fusion Age: The Fusion Age is pretty much written for Gundam or Macross style mechs. These would be more human-like in shame, average about 15 to 20 meters tall, and make heavy use of inbuilt nuclear reactors and powerful energy weapons and energy barriers. Almost all mechs are built to fight on Earth or in space. Mechs that can alter their shape are common. Occasional "mobile armor" style mechs of 40+ meter size show up.

Early Gravitic Age: Mechs of extremely high performance emerge. Best comparison would be Zone of the Enders Orbital Frames, which can enter or exit a planet's atmosphere at will, move free from the limits of gravity, use space distortion effects for their weapons and defenses, and are capable of extreme degrees of modification and self-evolution.

Hyperdrive Age: Mechs get absolutely nuts. Individual mechs start getting equipped with nanotech weapons capable of planetary-level destruction, such as the Turn-A Gundam's Moonlight Butterfly system. Most mechs prefer to teleport in equipment from external locations, or simply create it from scratch on the spot, rather than carry weapons or ammo. Mechs gain the ability to travel through the stars autonomously. Mechs' self-evolution and life-like properties allow them to vastly surpass their original designs and maintain themselves for centuries without external support.

Gravitic Age: Weapons the size of worlds designed to fight entire wars autonomously emerge. This is the scale of stuff like Transformers Unicron or Xenogears Deus. Weapons with the capability of destroying entire star systems become common. The boundaries between living organisms and machines begin to break down with extremely advanced mech technology.

 

[garrowolf]

I can't say that I agree with either the tech level system in general or these tech levels in particular, so that may color my advice, but here are my general suggestions.

Maybe I would get a better idea if you told me what you don't agree with on the tech levels. The reason that I have it set up this way so far is to include as many scifi settings as I could. I'm not worried about it being perfect but any ideas would be great.

A few things to consider though, I had to take the FTL issue out of the main focus of the tech leves because so many settings had FTL at different levels or got them from other sources and didn't develop them on their own.
Also I don't agree with the concept of Jumpdrives at very low tech levels. It seems more like a writer's need for a certain function then something that would make sense at that tech level. Also any Hyperspace is equal to any other hyperspace. I am defaulting to Honor Harrington style Hyperspace because it was the most interesting. Combat in Hyperspace is dangerous but possible. "Star Wars" tech Hyperdrives would put you in the same place as Babylon 5 as Honor Harrington. This way cross overs are not blocked or faced with one writer's limits too much.

Anyway what other ideas do you have about tech levels? I would like to keep the slower tech progression that I have so far so I would spread out some of the things you've talked about more.

 

[garrowolf]

Actually I realized where the confusion came in about the tech levels. I only showed you a certain part of the whole list.


Low Tech
TL 1: Stone Age
You can use sticks and stones to break people's bones. A lack of harder farming implements limits stone age cultures to hunter gather sustenance living. The best defense is either caves or mobility.

TL 2: Bronze Age
Once you have the ability to form farming tools there is a surplus and a boom of specialized people in the culture. There is a large focus on domestication and the beginnings of economics. Cities are built as large forts. This includes The Babylonians to the Greeks on Earth Prime.

TL 3: Steel Age
This covers the Roman era to the Middle ages on Earth Prime. Heavy steel makes much tougher tools and weapons. Larger scale constructions are now possible with concrete.


Medium Tech
TL 4: Gunpowder Age
This includes the Renaissance and the Age of Exploration from Earth Prime. Gunpowder supplants Steel as the weapon of the day. Muskets and Cannons make armor useless.


TL 5: Industrial Age
Heavier materials from the gunpowder age are finally capable of the higher grades necessary to build complex machinery. This allows steam tech to work. This covers WW 1 and WW 2.


High Tech
TL 6: Information Age
This is the Modern Era on Earth Prime. It is a focus on computers and shared information. Early nuclear testing opens up lots of other technologies. Computers open up the world to many.


TL 7: Cyber Age
Advances in nanotechnology, biology, and computers open up cybernetic interfaces between humanity and our tools. Power armor develops. Various kinds of fuel cells become common. Large number of development in robotics. Droids become common. Dangerous viruses are explored. Personality uploads are now possible but it doesn't have the spark of the original. The mind is being explored and abused. VR is common. Early crude power armor is available. Power Loaders with weapons as early mechs such as Lost Planet Vital Suits.


TL 8: Fusion Age
Heavy early space travel explores the solar system. Space is still the realm of megacorps and nations. Large scale colonization of the oceans. Seaquest style vehicles and hyper-cavitation ships become common. Bioroids so close to human that you can't easily tell are common. Genies are being engineered. Cloning organs is common. Brain in a jar tech is available. Animal uplift explored. Full AI develops.
Single stage to orbit vehicles become common. Considerable number of space stations are built. Wars expand to other planets. Underground cities develop on other planets and moons. Habits are the new village.
Bulky power armor is available. Mechs become a common combat vehicles. Mecha such as Heavy Gear and some Battletech mechs are available. Plasma Cannons, Lasers, and smaller scale railguns are standard heavy weapons. Slugthrowers are also still used because of their heartiness.


FTL Tech

TL 9: Early Gravitic Age
Contra-gravity and artificial gravity open up space to the world. Humanity truly lives in space and by this point more people live in space then on the home world. Gravity control allows for inertial compensators and inertial displacement drives. Ships can move much faster without the burden of inertia. Ships travel up to 100gs of acceleration with Fusion Torch Engines.
Asteroid cities hold most of the people now. Terraforming is being carried out on several planets in the solar system. Huge space stations and arcologies are being built using the contragrav technologies. Things have an enormous scale to them now. Prolong is developed.
Early Hyperdrives allow humanity to move out into the galaxy. Huge colony ships are used to carry colonization out into the nearby systems. FTL communications by hyperspace relays.
Modular Mecha are common, Hardsuits, etc.

TL 10 Hyperdrive Age
Star Wars, Narn, Centauri, SGC Starships, Holograms are physical, Low powered shields, travel to other solar systems is every day thing, FTL 3. Blaster Weapons, Macross Tech, Ironman Power Armor (comics version with shields and repulsors)


TL 11 Gravitic Age
Minbari, Goaould, Moderate Powered Shields, antimatter as a normal power source, access natural jump points to go into wormholes, FTL 4. Honorverse tech, Grazers


TL 12 Space Fold Age
Ancients, Ori, Star Trek Warp, shields become able to block out all stellar and direct energy weapons, capable of moving moons, major scale terraforming including Gas Giant Terraforming into a Star, Stable Wormhole creation (ala Stargate system or the Wing Commander Privateer system of jump points.), control time wormhole destination, FTL 5

Extreme Tech

TL 13 Star Control Age
Rearrange Star Systems, alter Stars behavior in major ways, create intergalactic wormholes, easy inter-galactic travel, FTL 6

TL 14 Matter Creation
Star Trek Transporters, Asgard, Vorlons, First Ones, Time Lords, Traits on a ship or item changeable on the fly, extreme spacial shaping and larger on the inside tech, time control

TL 15 Reality Control
shape or reshape a dimension to your plans.