Power Attack when needing natural 20

[Nifft]

why can the doddering dying old peasant with -5 to hit successfully hit the AC 35 monster just as often as my Fighter with +15 to hit?

The Fighter can Power Attack and do serious damage on his 5% hit. So it's different in that respect.

Of course, DOPs (if present) should probably be using the Aid Another action to boost the Fighter's attack bonus, or at least flanking the monster so the Fighter hits on an 18.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Rystil Arden]

The Fighter can Power Attack and do serious damage on his 5% hit. So it's different in that respect.

Of course, DOPs (if present) should probably be using the Aid Another action to boost the Fighter's attack bonus, or at least flanking the monster so the Fighter hits on an 18.

Cheers, -- N

The Fighter certainly does more damage on the hit, even without Power Attack, but damage per hit is different than accuracy--the trouble is that the doddering old peasant is just as accurate. If you give the Fighter and the Doddering Old Peasant both a Crossbow and have them shoot at our hypothetical monster from a distance, you can't distinguish the two. Heck, have the doddering old peasant shoot from 5 range increments away while the critter was behind heavy cover--he's exactly as accurate as if he or the Fighter shot from right in the monster's face from behind where there is no cover.

 

[Jer]

The Fighter certainly does more damage on the hit, even without Power Attack, but damage per hit is different than accuracy--the trouble is that the doddering old peasant is just as accurate. If you give the Fighter and the Doddering Old Peasant both a Crossbow and have them shoot at our hypothetical monster from a distance, you can't distinguish the two. Heck, have the doddering old peasant shoot from 5 range increments away while the critter was behind heavy cover--he's exactly as accurate as if he or the Fighter shot from right in the monster's face from behind where there is no cover.

What that means in my games is that the creature is so well-armored (or dextrous, or tough, or whatever its particular AC bonus represents in this case) that the only thing that will touch it is a lucky hit. A fighter with more training (e.g. a higher bonus) can find the chinks in the armor and get in a skilled hit, but the figher with the lower bonus just doesn't have the skill to find it anymore than the doddering old peasant does. But the gods do favor the bold, so everyone gets that chance at a lucky hit (even the monsters).

I can see the arguments the other way for the telescoping die rolls, and I've used them myself in the past, and more power to anyone who wants to use them themselves, but I've been able to rationalize this particular weirdism of the combat system away enough that I don't bother with them anymore.

On the topic at hand - I think its perfectly reasonable to let someone use max power attack once they've figured out that they're only going to hit it on a natural 20. Since AC represents so many things, that "natural 20" could be required for a variety of reasons - a thick hide, quick on their feet, hefty armor plating - any of these things could be rationale for wanting to make your strike hurt as hard as it can because you know you're only going to get a few whacks through the thing's defenses.

 

[robberbaron]

PCs retreating? Does that actually happen?

Agreed that Power Attack when needing 20 can't hurt, but it doesn't feel right.

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

Sure, PC's do retreat given certain pre-conditions. Pre-conditions such as:

- an ongoing campaign
- a world with parts not necessarily tailored to the pc's level
- appropriate treasure awards
- raise dead being available
- replacement characters coming in a level lower than the raised character

With these pre-conditions the longterm pc's can be outclassed, have limited wealth for raising the dead, and the player of dead character cannot escape their punishment.

In such a game, I think the player of the full PA character would sooner or later be playing the party's sidekick. And playing the sidekick seriously sux. So my concern would really just be 'can the full PA player handle sucking badly?'

I know I couldn't.

 

[Kmart Kommando]

If the fighter can't hit but on a 20, then something is not right with the encounter level.

 

[Maldor]

what CR is MR. AC 35 that picking on a level 10

 

[Kmart Kommando]

We had just the opposite happen. A dragon with Improved Combat Expertise using full BAB to AC and using Wraithstrike to still hit everyone on a 2 or higher. Though we did realize later that all that bonus AC wouldn't have helped against the invisible sorcerer blasting away with range touch spells.

 

[ValhallaGH]

That's not a fighting retreat, that's just getting more damaged for basically nothing.

Huh?

How is one character anchoring the monster while everyone else runs away not a fighting retreat?

Hopefully, for the anchor, the other characters can pin the monster for a round or two while the anchor escapes, but that's why I suggested the helm of teleportation.

 

[Gerion of Mercadia]

A Couple of notes from above.

If the fighter can't hit but on a 20, then something is not right with the encounter level.


Rules - Power Attack when needing natural 20

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Would you allow this?
1. A fighter encounters a monster with high AC. To hit, he needs a natural 20.
2. Since he needs a natural 20 anyway, he goes full power attack.

More specific: fighter with Bab +10, Monster with AC 35.


Question - BAB is +10 ... what are the "other" bonuses involved Str score, Magic Weapon? Charging? Feats? Monster specific defences? Damage Reduction?

for a 10th level fighter, I would think you could come up with at least another +8 - maybe +10 from str score and magic weapon alone. Either somebody is "playing against type" or something is unbalanced.