Power Attack when needing natural 20

[FreeTheSlaves]

How is one character anchoring the monster while everyone else runs away not a fighting retreat?

Someone with a 5% hit chance just won't draw heat. The winning monsters simply draw an AoO and go after the lightly armoured meat.

The only impediment the lone PA is is really just to mobility, i.e. thwarting charge attacks but not a hussled pursuit.

Basically the 5% hit chance just isn't adding any fight to a 'fighting retreat'.

However, if you've experienced otherwise I don't dispute events on the ground.

 

[Bront]

I've seen characters power attack for so much that they ended up needing a natural 20 to hit. It's never been a problem, from a balance perspective, though it can make for some truly amazing shifts in the battle when the character crits (with a scythe).

You do realize you can't crit if you need a natural 20 to hit because it automaticly hits, right?

 

[Kmart Kommando]

You do realize you can't crit if you need a natural 20 to hit because it automaticly hits, right?

Actually, you need to roll 2 20s in a row, or have Bless Weapon up on it.

 

[Herzog]

ok, for those bringing up 'unbalanced', or 'what other bonusses?':

the +10 bab vs AC 35 was meant as an example.

And yes, such an encounter would probably be unbalanced.
The question was whether this would be a viable tactic, which I am now convinced it is.
( I would also, if possible, use CE as well to assure max AC and max DM for my lucky 20)

herzog

 

[Stalker0]

Would never have a problem with it, because there's a nice counter to full power attack, its called disarm

My fighter is going for 20's with 10 points of PA!!

Alright the monster attempts to disarm you, you get an AOO. But you still that 20 to hit.

Okay!! Damn, didnt' get it.

Roll your opposed attack roll, the monster got a 20.

I got...a 5

I've tried the nonautohit rule and hated it. I was playing a monk, and there were times that all I could do was roll 20's and hope for a hit. Nothing was more frustrating than rolling a 20 and still missing.

You can't balance the average of combat around fighters, because all the secondary fighters go down the toilet. Fighters should EXCEL at combat, the rogue and the monk should be your average hitters.

And to the doddering old peasant vs 10th level fighter argument, I say to a high level dragon they DO look the same

 

[Kmart Kommando]

Would never have a problem with it, because there's a nice counter to full power attack, its called disarm

My fighter is going for 20's with 10 points of PA!!

Alright the monster attempts to disarm you, you get an AOO. But you still that 20 to hit.

Okay!! Damn, didnt' get it.

Roll your opposed attack roll, the monster got a 20.

I got...a 5

Something doesn't sit right about that, because Combat Expertise would be the same way.
Leaning into your spear for more oomph shouldn't make you easier to disarm. Same with spending more attention on not getting hit than scoring a hit, how does that make you easier to disarm? They guy trying to hit you is going to be easier to to disarm than the guy playing it safe. It's just a rules exploit that discourages disarm and using those feats you burned to do cool stuff. And an easy way for the DM to take away some of your gear. :\

 

[FreeTheSlaves]

There's always a tradeoff when you reduce your character's BAB - sunder, disarm, AoO, grapple, etc...

The key really is how much will you reduce it by?

For example, in our last session my knight reduced BAB too much for too much AC so the Ghast-lord attacked the warrior-priest. My knight has superior starting AC so he should have only marginally decreased it so the Ghast-lord would have still considered him a hittable foe.

Another time I fought defensively + full combat expertise (-9 hit), so the Barghest simply grappled as my knight unsurprisingly missed the AoO.

Basically reducing BAB requires tactical consideration. You need to look at the likely counter from your enemies but also how your companions will be affected. It may be that excessive PA may see your character subsequently disarmed, but the foe doing so may simply be forcing you to draw another weapon to fight (standard attack) while they take full attacks from your allies.

 

[Machiavelli]

Those enemies in your examples appear to be metagaming, and they know the rules very well.

 

[robberbaron]

There seems to be a little confusion over terminology: when Power Attacking you subtract a number from your attack roll, not your BAB. Ditto Combat Expertise.
BAB is only changed when your level and/or ability changes.

You still get to use your full bonuses for a Grapple check, though, as that is a BAB-based check, not an attack.

When defending against a Disarm you would indeed have to use your reduced attack bonus.
I presume that, if you put more effort into a strike (bigger backswing, roundhouse punch), you risk over-extending yourself, making a disarm attack easier.

Not so sure how being more defensive would have the same effect, though.

 

[Nifft]

Those enemies in your examples appear to be metagaming, and they know the rules very well.

Metagaming (Acquired Template)
As base creature, but knows and uses rules very well.
CR: +1

Cheers, -- N