Power design guidelines?
- Thread starter Morrus
- Start date
fissionessence
First Post
One important thing to consider is character role. I don't know of any guideline or level-damage charts or anything for this, but if such a guide were to exist, it would have to differentiate between defender, leader, controller and striker. Also, sometimes class powers are balanced against the class in which the power exists, such as the barbarian's howling strike, etc.
~ fissionessence
~ fissionessence
keterys
First Post
Character role has surprisingly little to do with the balance of powers - that is, striker powers don't deal more damage inherently than defender powers... that's what they have quarry, curse, or sneak attack for.
There is no scale that I know of... what level range are you thinking on? Some appropriate suggestions can be given depending on your level range.
Like, Level 1 Encounter - 2d8/2W plus moderate status or 1d10/1W plus solid status - of course, Chill Strike vs. Dazing Strike makes you wonder, even there.
In terms of damage output, especially at higher levels, multiple attacks on a single target are ridiculously better than a single big attack. That is, it's possible for 2 attacks at 1W to be better than 1 attack for 7W.
There are some rough guidelines for how soon is too early for something to show up. Like, no stunned on encounter powers before 13th. No stunned (save ends) except on dailies. That kinda thing.
There is no scale that I know of... what level range are you thinking on? Some appropriate suggestions can be given depending on your level range.
Like, Level 1 Encounter - 2d8/2W plus moderate status or 1d10/1W plus solid status - of course, Chill Strike vs. Dazing Strike makes you wonder, even there.
In terms of damage output, especially at higher levels, multiple attacks on a single target are ridiculously better than a single big attack. That is, it's possible for 2 attacks at 1W to be better than 1 attack for 7W.
There are some rough guidelines for how soon is too early for something to show up. Like, no stunned on encounter powers before 13th. No stunned (save ends) except on dailies. That kinda thing.
Quickleaf
Legend
I really hope DMG2 addresses the science of power creation, even though there seems to be a fair bit of art. For the parts that can be codified, someone in the house rules forum started to break down the power creation guidelines. I forget who and my search-fu was weak today 
I hope they take credit for their work!
[sblock=power creation guidelines]Melee
Standard Action, Melee Weapon
Target: One Creature
Attack: Primary Attribute Modifier (PAM) vs AC
Hit: 1W + PAM damage
Ranged
Standard Action, Ranged Weapon
Target: One Creature
Attack: Primary Attribute Modifier (PAM) vs AC
Hit: 1W + PAM damage
Close
Standard Action, Close Burst 1
Target: Each creature in burst
Attack: Primary Attribute Modifier (PAM) vs AC
Hit: 1W + PAM damage
Area
Standard Action, Area burst 1 within 10 squares
Target: Each creature is burst
Attack: Primary Attribute Modifier (PAM) vs Reflex
Hit: 1d6 + PAM damage
2) Each power type has a different power modifier sum. Power modifiers may be taken more than once and the effects are cummulative.
At-will powers: 1
Encounter powers: 2 in heroic, 5 in paragon, 7 in epic
Daily power: 4 in heroic, 7 in paragon, 9 in epic
Sample Power Modifers
-2: No PAM damage on Hit
-1: Add damage type (fire, necrotic, poison)
-1: Remove Weapon or Implement Keyword
0: Attack targets Fortitude or Will instead of Reflex
0: Ranged 5 instead of Ranged weapon
0: Hit deal 1d6 damage instead of 1W
0: Add damage type (cold, electric, thunder)
1: Blast or Wall instead of burst
1: Hit also pushes the target 1 square
1: Hit also knocks the target prone
1: Hit deals an additional 1W
1: Hit or Miss also causes minor ailment (dazed, slowed, grants combat advantage) until the end of your next turn
1: Hit or Miss causes onging damage 5
1: Hit or Miss grants target -2 penalty to one defense or attack rolls until end of your next turn
1: Hit or Miss grants target -SAM penalty to one defense or attack rolls until end of your next turn
1: Increase damage dice one size
1: Increase burst or area size by 2
1: Increase Range by 5 squares
1: Ailment lasts until save ends instead or end of turn
1: Hit deals Secondary Attribute damage
1: Add damage type (radiant, acid, psychic)
1: Attack is Reliable
1: +2 to the attack roll
1: Attack deal half damage on Miss
2: Attack targets Reflex instead of AC
2: Hit or Miss also causes major ailment (stunned, immobilized, blinded) until the end of your next turn
2: Additional 1W attack after primary attack
[/sblock]
A couple points to consider:
Conditions (least to worst)
Deafened, Slowed, granting Combat Advantage, Prone, Immobilized, Dazed, Weakened, Blinded, Restrained, Petrified (assuming it is as temporary as any other effect), Stunned, Dominated, Unconscious.
Granularity within tiers
The system above doesn't take into account any difference between, say level 1 and level 7 attack powers. It seems like level 7 should be more powerful, right? There was discussion in the original thread that this assumption might not be true. Personally I think adding some granularity would be helpful...maybe I'll do that.
Scaling for repeated power modifiers
It's pretty clear that there should be an exponential or at least an increasing cost for repeatedly adding, say a +1[W] to power's damage. Also, there was discussion about dividing up scaling according to three groups, but I can't remember what those were.
Hope that gives you a good start. If you come up with any other tools, let us know!
I hope they take credit for their work![sblock=power creation guidelines]Melee
Standard Action, Melee Weapon
Target: One Creature
Attack: Primary Attribute Modifier (PAM) vs AC
Hit: 1W + PAM damage
Ranged
Standard Action, Ranged Weapon
Target: One Creature
Attack: Primary Attribute Modifier (PAM) vs AC
Hit: 1W + PAM damage
Close
Standard Action, Close Burst 1
Target: Each creature in burst
Attack: Primary Attribute Modifier (PAM) vs AC
Hit: 1W + PAM damage
Area
Standard Action, Area burst 1 within 10 squares
Target: Each creature is burst
Attack: Primary Attribute Modifier (PAM) vs Reflex
Hit: 1d6 + PAM damage
2) Each power type has a different power modifier sum. Power modifiers may be taken more than once and the effects are cummulative.
At-will powers: 1
Encounter powers: 2 in heroic, 5 in paragon, 7 in epic
Daily power: 4 in heroic, 7 in paragon, 9 in epic
Sample Power Modifers
-2: No PAM damage on Hit
-1: Add damage type (fire, necrotic, poison)
-1: Remove Weapon or Implement Keyword
0: Attack targets Fortitude or Will instead of Reflex
0: Ranged 5 instead of Ranged weapon
0: Hit deal 1d6 damage instead of 1W
0: Add damage type (cold, electric, thunder)
1: Blast or Wall instead of burst
1: Hit also pushes the target 1 square
1: Hit also knocks the target prone
1: Hit deals an additional 1W
1: Hit or Miss also causes minor ailment (dazed, slowed, grants combat advantage) until the end of your next turn
1: Hit or Miss causes onging damage 5
1: Hit or Miss grants target -2 penalty to one defense or attack rolls until end of your next turn
1: Hit or Miss grants target -SAM penalty to one defense or attack rolls until end of your next turn
1: Increase damage dice one size
1: Increase burst or area size by 2
1: Increase Range by 5 squares
1: Ailment lasts until save ends instead or end of turn
1: Hit deals Secondary Attribute damage
1: Add damage type (radiant, acid, psychic)
1: Attack is Reliable
1: +2 to the attack roll
1: Attack deal half damage on Miss
2: Attack targets Reflex instead of AC
2: Hit or Miss also causes major ailment (stunned, immobilized, blinded) until the end of your next turn
2: Additional 1W attack after primary attack
[/sblock]
A couple points to consider:
Conditions (least to worst)
Deafened, Slowed, granting Combat Advantage, Prone, Immobilized, Dazed, Weakened, Blinded, Restrained, Petrified (assuming it is as temporary as any other effect), Stunned, Dominated, Unconscious.
Granularity within tiers
The system above doesn't take into account any difference between, say level 1 and level 7 attack powers. It seems like level 7 should be more powerful, right? There was discussion in the original thread that this assumption might not be true. Personally I think adding some granularity would be helpful...maybe I'll do that.
Scaling for repeated power modifiers
It's pretty clear that there should be an exponential or at least an increasing cost for repeatedly adding, say a +1[W] to power's damage. Also, there was discussion about dividing up scaling according to three groups, but I can't remember what those were.
Hope that gives you a good start. If you come up with any other tools, let us know!
keterys
First Post
It's... fairly trivial to break the powers system linked, fwiw. For example, you can have Super Scorching Burst (at-will, exactly like scorching burst plus targets are stunned until end of your next turn)
Also, weakened is three or four steps too high on that list of conditions.
Also, weakened is three or four steps too high on that list of conditions.
keterys
First Post
This is something I did once for figuring out a pseudo cost for specials on monsters for use against PCs... I'd change the cost if I were using it for PC powers to use on monsters...
'Deafened 0 (literally just flavor)
Pull 1 .05
Marked .1 (except I tend to avoid it because it's more to track and irks a reasonable subset of DMs and PCs)
Push 1 .1
Slide 1 .2
Pull 2+ .2
Push 2 .3
Slowed .3
Slide 2 .5
Grabbed .6
Push 3-5 .75
Slide 3-5 .9
Weakened .9 (actually often more powerful than many of these other cases, but it's far less annoying and easy to work around)
Prone 1
Push 6-10 1.1
Immobilized 1.2
Slide 6-10 1.5
Restrained 2 (1.5 if easy to escape)
Blind 2
Dazed 3
Penalty to attack = ~.2 per -1
Penalty to all defenses = ~.5 per -1
If I don't list something above, it should only show up in a limited attack or possibly as a Solo's shtick (like dominate). For my purposes, requires a combat condition that is easy to achieve does not count as limited enough - such as the ghouls bite causing stunned (save ends) I consider poor.'
If redone for use by PC powers, you'd want to factor that monsters sometimes don't have ranged options -at all- which makes immobilize a stronger option. They often don't have a use for as many actions, which is more of a limiter on dazed and stunned than it is on players (who are often screwed out of using their fun powers by daze, and are forced to not play by stunned), but the existence of elites and solos does strongly increase the power of dazed and stunned so you still want to be careful with them.
Weaken is also a lot safer for PCs to use against monsters. They don't do a ton of damage to start and there's less frustration inherent.
'Deafened 0 (literally just flavor)
Pull 1 .05
Marked .1 (except I tend to avoid it because it's more to track and irks a reasonable subset of DMs and PCs)
Push 1 .1
Slide 1 .2
Pull 2+ .2
Push 2 .3
Slowed .3
Slide 2 .5
Grabbed .6
Push 3-5 .75
Slide 3-5 .9
Weakened .9 (actually often more powerful than many of these other cases, but it's far less annoying and easy to work around)
Prone 1
Push 6-10 1.1
Immobilized 1.2
Slide 6-10 1.5
Restrained 2 (1.5 if easy to escape)
Blind 2
Dazed 3
Penalty to attack = ~.2 per -1
Penalty to all defenses = ~.5 per -1
If I don't list something above, it should only show up in a limited attack or possibly as a Solo's shtick (like dominate). For my purposes, requires a combat condition that is easy to achieve does not count as limited enough - such as the ghouls bite causing stunned (save ends) I consider poor.'
If redone for use by PC powers, you'd want to factor that monsters sometimes don't have ranged options -at all- which makes immobilize a stronger option. They often don't have a use for as many actions, which is more of a limiter on dazed and stunned than it is on players (who are often screwed out of using their fun powers by daze, and are forced to not play by stunned), but the existence of elites and solos does strongly increase the power of dazed and stunned so you still want to be careful with them.
Weaken is also a lot safer for PCs to use against monsters. They don't do a ton of damage to start and there's less frustration inherent.
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