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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Xaelvaen" data-source="post: 7245391" data-attributes="member: 6681906">Min/maxing, and abusing a 'loophole' as you put it, are completely separate things.If it is truly a loophole, something that is obviously against the intent of the wording, simply don't allow it.  This is the GM's prerogative, and should be respected by any player wishing the DM to arbitrate a game for them.  An example of a loophole might be someone doing Fighter 1 / Ranger 2, and taking both Defensive and Mariner while wearing non-heavy armor.  In my games, I don't allow these styles to stack.  I consider a "+1 bonus to AC" to make the fighting style too similar, thus using the 'you cannot take a fighting style more than once' rule to arbitrate this.  My players accept this reasoning, as does anyone new wishing to play at my table.The other end of this argument, of course, is just actual Min/Maxing - people who just really enjoy being damage dealers.  If you're dealing with a one-dimensional math-machine that isn't even really a player character, that's something you and your group should address far outside of in-game play and mechanics.  You have to ultimately decide if that lack of depth is something you want in your games at all.  (At my table, the answer is most certainly no).However, if you're dealing with a character that has depth, flaws and personality just like anyone else, him making decisions to excel at particular tasks isn't something to shun or punish.  I regularly deal with complex power games - those that Role Play -and- really enjoy character optimization, and my solution is actually quite simple: Make reliant mechanics for a fight.  The Power Gamer wants to obviously be the star of the combat, and if other people don't use the same options, one can assume they don't - at least in the means of 'let's deal as much damage as possible.'  The best solution for my table, is to simply make both very necessary.  The bard in your group have a str/dex of 14 and can barely hit with his rapier?  Obviously he doesn't care about hitting with his rapier.  The Ftr/Pld/Brb like raging with 19 - 20 crit range and throwing in a Divine Smite on every crit they get?  Awesome.  Perhaps the BBG can't be harmed by melee weapons while it is focused on the attacker, and he focuses on the power gamer.  However, any spell cast by a bard with a verbal component 'distracts' the boss, drawing the attention away - now the bard is just as valuable, if not moreso, to the power gamer.Long-read-short, power gaming doesn't mean someone who doesn't also deserve praise for playing the game, and reward for caring.  Sometimes, the power gamer can actually put -more- thought into their character.  It isn't some mutually-exclusive switch that means they have to suck at the other facets of the game.  If you have a truly bad person who literally does nothing but number crunch and has no proverbial character soul, that isn't some issue to be solved with magic item discrepancy.</blockquote>

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