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<blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 7245432" data-attributes="member: 6795602">1.&nbsp; If what I am trying to persuade the person to do contradicts their major goals then I don't get a check since it's an outright fail.&nbsp; Checks are only made when there is uncertainty.2.&nbsp; Do you give your NPC's a check to avoid being deceived by a PC?&nbsp; If so then you better give the PC a check to avoid the same.The PHB on skill checks says:&quot;If the total equals or exceeds the DC, the ability check is a success—the creature overcomes the challenge at hand.&quot;3.&nbsp; In our case, once you have made the persuasion check and succeeded the guard will let you pass.&nbsp; There's nothing else to it.&nbsp; If the guard demands something else to let you pass then you failed and you can give in to his demands or try suggestion.&nbsp; That's pretty simple.&nbsp; If you are running that any other way then it's not how 5e says to handle it.&nbsp; &quot;If you succeed the check you overcome the challenge at hand.&quot;&nbsp; 4.&nbsp; Let's look at the other example.&nbsp; Let's say the NPC is trying to trick the PC into a trap.&nbsp; There will be no persuasion check involved there because it's guaranteed success.&nbsp; The NPC despite anything the PC's are doing to persuade him is always going to agree if it furthers his plan of a trap.&nbsp; No check here because auto success.&nbsp; So basically we are left with a DM that asks for checks that aren't necessary in order to trick the players into thinking they legitimately succeeded at a task so that they don't question the trap.&nbsp; Yea, that's not how 5e is played.&nbsp; That same DM also gives legimately successful checks drawbacks to further confuse the players about whether they actually succeeded.&nbsp; Again, that's not how 5e is meant to be played.&nbsp; But hey, if it works for your table then feel free, just don't come here advocating that's the 5e way to stop such PC's.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="FrogReaver, post: 7245432, member: 6795602"] 1. If what I am trying to persuade the person to do contradicts their major goals then I don't get a check since it's an outright fail. Checks are only made when there is uncertainty. 2. Do you give your NPC's a check to avoid being deceived by a PC? If so then you better give the PC a check to avoid the same. The PHB on skill checks says: "If the total equals or exceeds the DC, the ability check is a success—the creature overcomes the challenge at hand." 3. In our case, once you have made the persuasion check and succeeded the guard will let you pass. There's nothing else to it. If the guard demands something else to let you pass then you failed and you can give in to his demands or try suggestion. That's pretty simple. If you are running that any other way then it's not how 5e says to handle it. "If you succeed the check you overcome the challenge at hand." 4. Let's look at the other example. Let's say the NPC is trying to trick the PC into a trap. There will be no persuasion check involved there because it's guaranteed success. The NPC despite anything the PC's are doing to persuade him is always going to agree if it furthers his plan of a trap. No check here because auto success. So basically we are left with a DM that asks for checks that aren't necessary in order to trick the players into thinking they legitimately succeeded at a task so that they don't question the trap. Yea, that's not how 5e is played. That same DM also gives legimately successful checks drawbacks to further confuse the players about whether they actually succeeded. Again, that's not how 5e is meant to be played. But hey, if it works for your table then feel free, just don't come here advocating that's the 5e way to stop such PC's. [/QUOTE]

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