Power Source Books?

[Elodan]

Coming late to the party on this. Pretty ambivalent about 4E at this point; things I like and things I don't like. Pre-ordered the core books.

The first core books will contain information on martial, arcane and divine power classes. Then, based on some threads here and at Amazon we'll be getting "splat" books for each of these power sources, starting in October with the Martial Power book. Based on what I see at Amazon each will have around 160 pages and cost about $30 USD.

I know they're optional, but if I want the latest and greatest 4E coolness I need to buy 3 more books for a total of $90. Then, Core PHB II has three more powers sources defined. I would expect to see three more power source books, etc. I know the price of being wicked awesome is high but it seems like the page count and cost for a book covering one of these power sources seems excessive to me (I only have complete warrior, arcane, divine, adventurer and psionic to base my feelings on this). I see there is speculation about what new classes might be in these books but does anyone have any ideas what else might be covered in these?

Thanks.

 

[TerraDave]

Based on past experience:

New Classes (maybe)
New Feats
New Powers/Manuevers (everyone gets these now...probably main part of book)
New "Paths" (the replacement for PrCs, I expect also a big part of the book)
New Skill uses (maybe)
New Items (though with a Tome of Treasures coming out around the same time, maybe not that much)
Crunchy info on charecter building and tactics (I hope...it is good)
Fluffy info on charecters in the world and background (I cringe, but can be good)
NPCs/Sample PCs (maybe, and again can be good, or not).

 

[I'm A Banana]

Maybe less "complete splat" and more "tome of splat."

Think about the detail provided in the Tome of Magic, or in the Tome of Battle. I'm hoping it'll be more like that than like the Complete series.

 

[MaelStorm]

It will be pretty expensive to buy all those books, at 30$ for 160 page it's a lot of money.

There will be a Tome of Treasure (mid Sept.)

I think there won't be any new classes in these books, but a subclassing system with optional starting packages (talent trees/feats/powers) for the different martial classes in the Player's Handbook. As well as offering new Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies.

We know almost nothing, and they're taking as much time as possible to release little tidbits of info, like the just released Halfling article.

 

[pukunui]

Based on what I see at Amazon each will have around 160 pages and cost about $30 USD.

Amazon is currently pre-selling Martial Power for $20. That's actually pretty cheap compared to what they were selling most of the 3.5 splatbooks for new ...

I see there is speculation about what new classes might be in these books but does anyone have any ideas what else might be covered in these?

I had originally said that I didn't think it was likely for the power source splatbooks to have new classes in them, but I thought about it some more and I think it's quite possible after all. The thing is, they're bringing out a PHB each year, so you'd think, "Maybe they'll only release new classes in the PHBs" ... but, since the first PHB is going to be limited to the "arcane, divine, and martial" power sources, it stands to reason that perhaps every PHB they put out will have all new power sources in it and it'll be up to the power source splatbooks to expand on the number of classes for power sources already released. The PHB2 could very well be for the "primal, psionic, and shadow" power sources, and if we want to see other arcane, divine, or martial classes, we'll have to get the splats. We'll just have to wait and see ...

As for what else will be in them? Since every class now has "spells" (or maneuvers or powers or whatever you want to call them), then my guess is that each splatbook will be chocka with new "spells" for each class, as well as new feats, paragon paths, epic destinies, and whatever else they want to put in. With the Martial Power book, I'm guessing there will be new mundane equipment, as well, while the Arcane Power book will probably contain new wizard implements and new Warlock pacts.

 

[GnomeWorks]

I had originally said that I didn't think it was likely for the power source splatbooks to have new classes in them, but I thought about it some more and I think it's quite possible after all. The thing is, they're bringing out a PHB each year, so you'd think, "Maybe they'll only release new classes in the PHBs" ... but, since the first PHB is going to be limited to the "arcane, divine, and martial" power sources, it stands to reason that perhaps every PHB they put out will have all new power sources in it and it'll be up to the power source splatbooks to expand on the number of classes for power sources already released. The PHB2 could very well be for the "primal, psionic, and shadow" power sources, and if we want to see other arcane, divine, or martial classes, we'll have to get the splats. We'll just have to wait and see ...

Hmm... you know, that would actually be a rather fantastic thing for WotC to do.

We know PH I is "arcane, martial, and divine," and we know that they're doing a splatbook for one of those - so it's a safe assumption they'll be doing it for all three.

We also know (or not? Someone correct me if need be) that PH II will detail three other power sources. It'd be a safe assumption that there will be three splatbooks for that, too.

What they might be doing, maybe, is compartmentalizing the power-sources into a year-long run of core three and splatbook support. That would help reduce power creep, by virtue of not putting out too much new material for old power sources; it would also make implementing a new power source in a given game incredibly convenient after the next core set is out, since you would just need to pick up the core with that power source and the appropriate splats. There wouldn't be the issue in 3.5 of needing to get all the Complete books to find all the options for a given power source.

Probably not what they're up to, but that would be rather neat.

 

[pukunui]

Hmm... you know, that would actually be a rather fantastic thing for WotC to do.

We know PH I is "arcane, martial, and divine," and we know that they're doing a splatbook for one of those - so it's a safe assumption they'll be doing it for all three.

We also know (or not? Someone correct me if need be) that PH II will detail three other power sources. It'd be a safe assumption that there will be three splatbooks for that, too.

What they might be doing, maybe, is compartmentalizing the power-sources into a year-long run of core three and splatbook support. That would help reduce power creep, by virtue of not putting out too much new material for old power sources; it would also make implementing a new power source in a given game incredibly convenient after the next core set is out, since you would just need to pick up the core with that power source and the appropriate splats. There wouldn't be the issue in 3.5 of needing to get all the Complete books to find all the options for a given power source.

Probably not what they're up to, but that would be rather neat.

I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss it. I think they may very well be doing that. There's a good chance they learned their lesson with 3.5 and won't be spreading out material for a particular group of classes across too many books. It's much better if you only need a few books for a particular class than a whole lot that may only have one or two things in them for your character.

 

[GnomeWorks]

I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss it. I think they may very well be doing that. There's a good chance they learned their lesson with 3.5 and won't be spreading out material for a particular group of classes across too many books. It's much better if you only need a few books for a particular class than a whole lot that may only have one or two things in them for your character.

Well, there is the money issue. If you have folks who have no interest in anything beyond the first core set, then they're not going to be buying any books beyond that and maybe the splats that support it, which would lead us to a situation similar to 2e with its menagerie of settings.

I imagine that they'll add a little bit of new material for old power sources in each new core set, or have ways to adapt the new stuff to old power sources ("Don't like shadow? Here's how to convert them to arcane powers!", etc). Beyond that, though, I'd agree that it'd be reasonable for them to avoid material for the power-sources bleeding into other core sets or splats as much as possible.

 

[MaelStorm]

What they might be doing, maybe, is compartmentalizing the power-sources into a year-long run of core three and splatbook support. That would help reduce power creep, by virtue of not putting out too much new material for old power sources; it would also make implementing a new power source in a given game incredibly convenient after the next core set is out, since you would just need to pick up the core with that power source and the appropriate splats. There wouldn't be the issue in 3.5 of needing to get all the Complete books to find all the options for a given power source.

Probably not what they're up to, but that would be rather neat.

It is exactly what I heard when I was watching the GamerZero interviews for the 4E Announcement at GEN Con last year that they (some game designers for WotC) said they would release Three Core Books every year at the same time (beginning of June).

Is it possible? Maybe. It least for the three first years I don't see any problem for game material... But it is about the only game in the RPG industry that does this. And it cost 100$ every time. Plus all the needed extra for it! The campaign books, etc.

 

[pukunui]

It is exactly what I heard when I was watching the GamerZero interviews for the 4E Announcement at GEN Con last year that they (some game designers for WotC) said they would release Three Core Books every year at the same time (beginning of June).

Is it possible? Maybe. It least for the three first years I don't see any problem for game material... But it is about the only game in the RPG industry that do this. And it cost 100$ every time. Plus all the needed extra for it! The campaign books, etc.

Right but each core set will have different stuff in it. You won't be buying the initial PHB, DMG, and MM each year. Next year you'd be buying the PHB2, DMG2, and MM2, then the year after that, you'd be buying the PHB3, DMG3, and MM3. They already started doing that with 3.5 (they got up to 5 MMs, although they only did two PHBs and DMGs).

The only issue I have is that I can't really think of what they'll be putting into subsequent DMGs. The MMs will have new monsters, the PHBs will have new races/classes/spells/etc, but what will the new DMGs have? More advice? New traps? New example towns? New example NPCs? New magic items (this is more likely going to be covered by the Tome of Treasures, and I won't be surprised if there will be more than one of these too)?