Power Swap Feats - Multiple Times?
- Thread starter vagabundo
- Start date
bobthehappyzombie
First Post
I'm fairly sure that unless it specifies otherwise that each feat can only be taken once.
Many feats do state explicitly they can be taken multiple times.
Many feats do state explicitly they can be taken multiple times.
Lord Xtheth
Explorer
I'm going to allow my players to take power swap feats more than once. I mean, its all about them having fun right? Whats more fun than playing the character you want to play as apposed to being restricted by a missing line in the rules.
"This feat may be taken once per power"
Yep, they should have included that simple little sentance.
Games are about fun for everyone, so let everyone have their fun.
"This feat may be taken once per power"
Yep, they should have included that simple little sentance.
Games are about fun for everyone, so let everyone have their fun.
Pierson_Lowgal
First Post
Pg 192, "Generally, you can't take the same feat more than once..."
Tony Vargas
Legend
I see no reason to restrict it. Each power swap feat is a net loss for the character: you lose a power and a feat, and gain an equivalent power. While a power from another class could have an unintended synergy with some aspect of your class (class feature or power), it's doubtful it'd be much greater than the benefit of still having your feat - if it's much greater, than the swap should probably be disalowed, or the synergy nerfed in some way.
JohnSnow
Hero
Lord Xtheth said:
While "by the rules," it may say you can't take them more than once, I hardly think it's unbalancing to allow it.
However, I would probably put a restriction that you could never have more powers in a given "pool" from your secondary class than you have from your primary class.
So, in other words, you can't have 2 encounter powers from your secondary class unless you have 4 encounter powers total. And since that doesn't happen until the Paragon tier, the point is probably moot...
But that's me.
Anax
First Post
One thing that has occurred to me while looking at the multiclassing rules--they really *do* give a lot of access to the other class. Let's take a look at a level 20 character who has gone the "multiclass instead of paragon" route:
According to page 209, the multiclass feats are:
0) The multiclass feat for the class in question.
1) Novice Power (swap one per-encounter attack power)
2) Acolyte Power (swap one utility power)
3) Adept Power (swap one daily attack power)
The paragon multiclassing choice further gives you:
11th level: swap one at-will power
11th level: 7th level encounter power
12th level: 10th level utility power
20th level: 19th level daily power
At 20th level you normally have your two (three for humans) at-will powers, four encounter powers, four daily powers, and five utility powers. Those powers are expected to be of level:
At-Will: 1, 1, (1*)
Per Encounter: P, 17, 13, 7
Per Day: P, 19, 15, 9
Utility: P, 16, 10, 6, 2
* If human
With multi-classing (assuming you always keep your second-best slot in your secondary class, and keep the best one for your primary class), we have:
At-Will: 1, 1M, (1*)
Per Encounter: 17, 13M, 7, 7M
Per Day: 19, 19M, 15M, 9
Utility: 16, 10M, 10M, 6, 2
If we assume that the regular "replace one encounter" and "replace one daily" features of leveling up can be applied to the paragon multiclass powers, then at level 30 you'd expect something like:
At-will: 1, 1M, (1*)
Per Encounter: 27, 23M, 17, 13M
Per Day: 29, 25M, 19, 19M
Utility: E, 22, 16, 10M, 10M, 6, 2
Note that one of the multiclass utility powers can be shifted around among all of the slots, whereas the other one is limited to being only at 10th level. Likewise, the high-level multiclass per-encounter and per-day can be shifted up or down as you desire.
What am I trying to point out here? Well, this: If you take the paragon multiclassing path, fully half of your at-will, per encounter, and per day attack powers are from your second class. Yes, sure, it's "only two powers from the other class", but you only get four powers total!
Utility powers is the place where this breaks down, and I might be tempted to allow one of the level 2 or level 6 utility to be swapped between classes for free at high levels.
In short: there's no good reason to allow more than one swap without the paragon multiclass approach. If you're going to be swapping that much stuff from your secondary class, you should multiclass, or you should have picked a different primary class. If you take a paragon class from your multiclass, it's the same thing, basically: Half of your powers are from your base class, half are from your paragon path. If you wanted more than that, you should have used your "other" class as the base class.
According to page 209, the multiclass feats are:
0) The multiclass feat for the class in question.
1) Novice Power (swap one per-encounter attack power)
2) Acolyte Power (swap one utility power)
3) Adept Power (swap one daily attack power)
The paragon multiclassing choice further gives you:
11th level: swap one at-will power
11th level: 7th level encounter power
12th level: 10th level utility power
20th level: 19th level daily power
At 20th level you normally have your two (three for humans) at-will powers, four encounter powers, four daily powers, and five utility powers. Those powers are expected to be of level:
At-Will: 1, 1, (1*)
Per Encounter: P, 17, 13, 7
Per Day: P, 19, 15, 9
Utility: P, 16, 10, 6, 2
* If human
With multi-classing (assuming you always keep your second-best slot in your secondary class, and keep the best one for your primary class), we have:
At-Will: 1, 1M, (1*)
Per Encounter: 17, 13M, 7, 7M
Per Day: 19, 19M, 15M, 9
Utility: 16, 10M, 10M, 6, 2
If we assume that the regular "replace one encounter" and "replace one daily" features of leveling up can be applied to the paragon multiclass powers, then at level 30 you'd expect something like:
At-will: 1, 1M, (1*)
Per Encounter: 27, 23M, 17, 13M
Per Day: 29, 25M, 19, 19M
Utility: E, 22, 16, 10M, 10M, 6, 2
Note that one of the multiclass utility powers can be shifted around among all of the slots, whereas the other one is limited to being only at 10th level. Likewise, the high-level multiclass per-encounter and per-day can be shifted up or down as you desire.
What am I trying to point out here? Well, this: If you take the paragon multiclassing path, fully half of your at-will, per encounter, and per day attack powers are from your second class. Yes, sure, it's "only two powers from the other class", but you only get four powers total!
Utility powers is the place where this breaks down, and I might be tempted to allow one of the level 2 or level 6 utility to be swapped between classes for free at high levels.
In short: there's no good reason to allow more than one swap without the paragon multiclass approach. If you're going to be swapping that much stuff from your secondary class, you should multiclass, or you should have picked a different primary class. If you take a paragon class from your multiclass, it's the same thing, basically: Half of your powers are from your base class, half are from your paragon path. If you wanted more than that, you should have used your "other" class as the base class.
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