Powerful Bulid Question

[Belzbet]

I am sure this has come up before but...
Can a creature with powerful build use a two-handed weapon of its size in one hand (without the 1.5X str to damage of course)? So lets take a goliath (a medium creature with powerful build ability). Can it use a medium spiked chain in one hand while using a shield (and retaining the 10ft reach of the weapon) without taking any penalty to attack (or is there a penalty to attack)? I know that it can use a large spiked chain in two hands without any penalty (while still havng only 10ft reach). And I know that a large creature can use a medium weapon as if it was one weapon size smaller if they take a penalty(so a two-handed weapon can be weilded as a one-handed weapon). What about the medium creature with powerful build (since a medium weapon is not unusual for it, which is similar to the justification they give why a large creature gets a penalty for using a medium weapon).

 

[Nezkrul]

you can only wield a two-handed weapon in one hand if it is one size smaller than your actual size. for a goliath this means a small spiked chain can be wielded in one hand, but he would suffer the size penalty for using a weapon that is not his size or 1 size larger.

powerful build is very explicit at what it allows you to do, and since you aren't large, no, you can't use a medium two-handed weapon in one hand.

 

[emoplato]

I am sure this has come up before but...
Can a creature with powerful build use a two-handed weapon of its size in one hand (without the 1.5X str to damage of course)? So lets take a goliath (a medium creature with powerful build ability). Can it use a medium spiked chain in one hand while using a shield (and retaining the 10ft reach of the weapon) without taking any penalty to attack (or is there a penalty to attack)? I know that it can use a large spiked chain in two hands without any penalty (while still havng only 10ft reach). And I know that a large creature can use a medium weapon as if it was one weapon size smaller if they take a penalty(so a two-handed weapon can be weilded as a one-handed weapon). What about the medium creature with powerful build (since a medium weapon is not unusual for it, which is similar to the justification they give why a large creature gets a penalty for using a medium weapon).

Instead of getting a race with powerful build you should look at totemist's girallon arms soulmeld. At level 3 the classes special ability totem kicks in which then you can put any totemist soulmeld as your totem, basically it is a free/unoccupied item slot. When you do two mystical arms grow out from your chest. Its intent is to allow a full attack with 4 claw attacks plus rend, but they use your full strength bonus so one could argue they are effectively as good as arms. If that doesn't pass by the DM you could just get an EWP in a drow scorpion chain a light slashing weapon 1d6 that has the same abilities as the spiked chain, except no power attack.

 

[Belzbet]

powerful build is very explicit at what it allows you to do, and since you aren't large, no, you can't use a medium two-handed weapon in one hand.

Yeah I know it says you can weild a weapon one size category larger with no penalty. The point of contention (with many WoTC writings) is if what it says is exhaustive in terms of the benefits (meaning whether what is written is the only plausible benefit's received). Is the clause about weapons something IMPLIED by the ability or is it a DESCRIPTION of the ability (in one sense it is a descritpion but is it a exhaustive description)? The ability makes it so a creature is effectively ONE SIZE CATEGORY LARGER (for SOME things). One of those things is weapons. So, it seems that the ability makes you one size category larger with respect to weapons (and something IMPLIED by that is that you can use larger weapons with no penalty). But, I do see that one should NOT add in benefits to abilities. But this one seems reasonable. Lets not consider weapons with reach (since those are odd shaped and hard to invision a person weilding in one hand). A goliath can use a large longsword in one hand AND a medium Greatsword. Those are presumably the same size why wouldnt the goliath be able to weild a medium greatsword in one hand (while amybe taking a penalty)? The question is more about the penalty.

I will let the character wield a medium Greatsword in one hand (no problem) I am just wondering if you guys think there should be a penalty? I mean if a human REALLY wanted to try and wield a medium Greatsword in one hand I would let them (they would just receive a large penalty for doing so). Its not like ITS IMPOSSIBLE for a human to wield a medium greatsword in one hand (they would just not weild it very good).

 

[Nezkrul]

powerful does not state that you are treated as one size category larger to use weapons... it does state that you may wield weapons (it refers to weapons, not you) that are one size category larger than you are, without penalty.

Using a two-handed weapon in one hand, REQUIRES the weapon to be one size smaller than the wielder's size, and they take a penalty to hit.

Powerful build does not state that you can ignore handedness for using weapons that are actually your size, it only does what it states (which is what I wrote above)

If you are the DM, feel free to houserule however you want, I'm simply saying that the RAW do not allow a medium creature to use a medium two-handed weapon in one hand, but they do allow said creature to use a small two-handed weapon in one hand at a penalty.

Don't think of a large longsword being exactly the same thing as a medium greatsword, that's 3.0 sizing. And in reality, a large longsword is not the same thing, since it's hilt would be designed to be held with one hand, and end up being slightly shorter than the medium greatsword's two-handed hilt.

 

[Wyvernhand]

I am sure this has come up before but...
Can a creature with powerful build use a two-handed weapon of its size in one hand (without the 1.5X str to damage of course)? So lets take a goliath (a medium creature with powerful build ability). Can it use a medium spiked chain in one hand while using a shield (and retaining the 10ft reach of the weapon) without taking any penalty to attack (or is there a penalty to attack)? I know that it can use a large spiked chain in two hands without any penalty (while still havng only 10ft reach). And I know that a large creature can use a medium weapon as if it was one weapon size smaller if they take a penalty(so a two-handed weapon can be weilded as a one-handed weapon). What about the medium creature with powerful build (since a medium weapon is not unusual for it, which is similar to the justification they give why a large creature gets a penalty for using a medium weapon).

Lets see what the rules say.

Powerful Build: The physical stature of half-giants lets them function in many ways as if they were one size category larger.

Whenever a half-giant is subject to a size modifier or special size modifier for an opposed check (such as during grapple checks, bull rush attempts, and trip attempts), the half-giant is treated as one size larger if doing so is advantageous to him.

A half-giant is also considered to be one size larger when determining whether a creature’s special attacks based on size (such as improved grab or swallow whole) can affect him. A half-giant can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty. However, his space and reach remain those of a creature of his actual size. The benefits of this racial trait stack with the effects of powers, abilities, and spells that change the subject’s size category.

Bolded emphasis is mine. So, Powerful Build lets you use larger weapons, but you aren't treated as being larger with regards to using weapons. You are the exception to being large, in that you only get part of the benefit.

I see what you are arguing. The answer is no, it doesn't. If you want to house rule it that way, that is your own call. As written, however, the rules don't allow it. A goliath with a medium and large greatsword would wield both with 2 hands.

Instead of getting a race with powerful build you should look at totemist's girallon arms soulmeld. At level 3 the classes special ability totem kicks in which then you can put any totemist soulmeld as your totem, basically it is a free/unoccupied item slot. When you do two mystical arms grow out from your chest. Its intent is to allow a full attack with 4 claw attacks plus rend, but they use your full strength bonus so one could argue they are effectively as good as arms. If that doesn't pass by the DM you could just get an EWP in a drow scorpion chain a light slashing weapon 1d6 that has the same abilities as the spiked chain, except no power attack.

The wrong in this post...it is staggering. A) Totemists get Totem Bind at 2nd level, not 3rd. B) The Totem Bind is not a free item slot. It is a Chakra Bind. Chakra Binds are similar to item slots, and overlap with item slots, but are NOT item slots. They are Chakra binds. You can't wear an item in your Totem bind "slot". C) They do NOT use your full Str bonus. Only the first claw is a primary weapon (assuming you have no other primary natural weapon). The other 3 claws are secondary weapons, and only get 1/2 +Str (all 4 claws would be secondary and get 1/2 +Str in the presence of a manufactured weapon or other dominant primary natural weapon). D) Girallon Arms are claws and don't have any indication that they are capable of wielding weapons. Thus, they can't wield weapons, alone or in combination with other limbs. They are natural attacks. E) A Drow Scorpion Chain is NOT Light. Its an exotic 2hander with reach, able to trip, has a bonus to disarm, and is EXPLICITLY finessable despite not being light, the exact same as a normal Spiked Chain. The only difference is the damage and threat range.

Please, if you are going to give advice on a forum, do your homework first. People spreading false information is bad for the community.

 

[emoplato]

Lets see what the rules say.

Bolded emphasis is mine. So, Powerful Build lets you use larger weapons, but you aren't treated as being larger with regards to using weapons. You are the exception to being large, in that you only get part of the benefit.

I see what you are arguing. The answer is no, it doesn't. If you want to house rule it that way, that is your own call. As written, however, the rules don't allow it. A goliath with a medium and large greatsword would wield both with 2 hands.



The wrong in this post...it is staggering. A) Totemists get Totem Bind at 2nd level, not 3rd. B) The Totem Bind is not a free item slot. It is a Chakra Bind. Chakra Binds are similar to item slots, and overlap with item slots, but are NOT item slots. They are Chakra binds. You can't wear an item in your Totem bind "slot". C) They do NOT use your full Str bonus. Only the first claw is a primary weapon (assuming you have no other primary natural weapon). The other 3 claws are secondary weapons, and only get 1/2 +Str (all 4 claws would be secondary and get 1/2 +Str in the presence of a manufactured weapon or other dominant primary natural weapon). D) Girallon Arms are claws and don't have any indication that they are capable of wielding weapons. Thus, they can't wield weapons, alone or in combination with other limbs. They are natural attacks. E) A Drow Scorpion Chain is NOT Light. Its an exotic 2hander with reach, able to trip, has a bonus to disarm, and is EXPLICITLY finessable despite not being light, the exact same as a normal Spiked Chain. The only difference is the damage and threat range.

Please, if you are going to give advice on a forum, do your homework first. People spreading false information is bad for the community.

A) My mistake
B) You do give a better technical answer but the fact is the totem doesn't take up an item slot like other soulmelds do.
C and D) Technically, yes but they behave like any other natural claw does so one can argue either way, to say they can't grasp a weapon when at the same time if they have improved grab they can grab a guy is a little contradictory.
E) Well then the information I had was wrong, stay away from giant playground light weapon list, sorry.

 

[Wyvernhand]

Girallon Claws don't have Improved Grab alone...you need another ability to give them Improved Grab. Wyverns have Improved Grab with their claws, but you don't see them wielding greatswords, do you? Creatures with claws that don't specify that those claws can wield weapons generally can't. Troglodytes and Lizardfolk can. Lions and Girallon don't.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

Honestly, in the case of Powerful Build I'd say the character can use a 2h weapon for its size (in this case, medium) in one hand at a -2 penalty. This is an extension of Powerful Build's description saying:

A (insert race here) can use weapons designed for a creature one size larger without penalty.

The -2 is going along with the weapon size rules. Yes, it does say the actual size of the weapon's wielder, but Powerful Build throws that out the window somewhat. PB implies that the character is Large or Medium as is beneficial when determining what size of weapons he can use, along with other things based upon character size.

 

[emoplato]

Girallon Claws don't have Improved Grab alone...you need another ability to give them Improved Grab. Wyverns have Improved Grab with their claws, but you don't see them wielding greatswords, do you? Creatures with claws that don't specify that those claws can wield weapons generally can't. Troglodytes and Lizardfolk can. Lions and Girallon don't.

First, I said if they do improved grab. Second, Wyvern's don't have weapon proficiencies and if they do they need to be designed for feet. The point is that they are hand claws on arms that behave exactly if a character had natural claws on their hands. I know it isn't the intent, but it doesn't dismiss it. It is ultimately whether the DM will allow it. It is for them to determine if this character will be severely overpowered to the rest of the party. The way I see it is, yes, this character could do a lot of damage to a fair amount of targets but it will take quite a bit a feats and abilities to get full strength out of it.