Powergaming and the Human Psyche

In a related pychological theme, humans both adapt-to and shape their social environment to establish their worth.

Powergaming is often (not always) the product of an environment which encourages powergaming. If it yields some sort of positive response from the DM and the players, it is more likely to spread throughout the gaming table. Primal urges for violence, destruction, etc. bring a sense of harmony and purpose to potentially complicated and divisive scenarios. Let's not argue how to deal with the prisoner -- how many goblins did you get? I got 5!

How much damage is dealt? How many HP do you have? How many attacks do you have? These simple metrics provide an easy way for a player to get on board with munchkins/minmaxers/powergamers. Such a group will be sensitive to maintain a sense of "competitive comaraderie." Conform to expectations and we'll all have a good time beatin' stuff up. It's very like a hunting trip in that respect. If you stop wanting to kill stuff, you're weird.

Anyone with more complex standards of acceptance and worth will find something lacking in such a game. They rage against the reduction of their character to stats and damage dealing ability. "We might as well be a bunch of apes fighting over a banana! How is this fun?"

Campaigns that are a constant stream of combat interrupted only by thin discussions of why violence is (yet again) the primary task at hand -- these are the campaigns that awaken the primal powergamer of the human psyche. Start throwing in scenes which require a lot of violence-free stealth, diplomacy to gain access to a stronghold, or alliance building ...and gamers will either provide more sophisticated human responses or they will quit in frustration. This is the psyche's struggle with its environment. It either adapts or escapes to a more favorable one.

So sometimes players and DM (or just one "stubborn" player) want simplistic models of group harmony in their gaming experience. It is fantasy, after all. No crime.


My personal finding: this need for simpler modes of social acceptance evolve from either or all of 3 themes: A) Life is complicated enough without games requiring complicated interpersonal dynamics. Let's just beat stuff up together! and/or B) one's self image is not resilient or broad enough to enjoy an environment fraught with unclear social responses (IRL their evaluations of self hinge on a few simple variables like income, attractiveness, etc....and they're likely to internally compete with others on the same criteria) and/or C) People who have very few social skills at their disposal will find anything beyond "Let's kill the troll!" to be emotionally taxing.
 

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Start throwing in scenes which require a lot of violence-free stealth, diplomacy to gain access to a stronghold, or alliance building ...and gamers will either provide more sophisticated human responses or they will quit in frustration.

You may be confusing powergaming with wargaming. Throw a real powergamer for a loop like that - and I mean a real powergamer, not just a combat-loving wargamer - and you'll get very scary results. Cruise around the WotC Character Optimization boards some time. I've seen brutally min/maxed Diplomacy based builds that can walk into any given encounter, convert all the combatants into close buddies, and given a week, convince them all to abandon their evil ways and convert to lawful good. It's pretty cool. :D

--Impeesa--
 

Impeesa said:
I've seen brutally min/maxed Diplomacy based builds that can walk into any given encounter, convert all the combatants into close buddies, and given a week, convince them all to abandon their evil ways and convert to lawful good. It's pretty cool. :D
Well, I can't disagree with what you've said here. But I don't think the original post nor the traditional discussion around powergaming refers to this expression of it.

Thanks for shedding light on the expanding nature of the conversation, though!
 

Every antique epic concerns itself as much with the protagonists flaws as it does with their deeds. Only be overcoming their shortcomings do their actions become heroic, become shining examples for others to strive after.

Yet, on the other hand, every RPG features the constant rewards & powerincrease of the characters (the proverbial carrot I guess) and most playes strive (to different degrees) to make their characters stronger, smarter, etc.. than the rest. Most "heroic" fantasy games like D&D already start off with characters who are quite a bit better than the normal person to beginn with.
The psychological reasons for this I leave up to others, but somewhere here is a dilemma between telling heroic stories and playing strong characters that satisfy the need for larger than life action/achievments/whatever.

If someone finds a workable solution to this paradox, please tell me. I'd really appreciate it.
One solution that my group really likes is yoinking the 'flaws' system from Testament. It gives a mechancial representation of the character's misgivings...and no, you don't get anything in exchange for the flaw. You just get the flaw.

But aside from this, I think you're focusing too much on the 'struggle against all odds.' Even the best swordsman in the world can't meet all challenges with a sword.

Wanting to make the bad guys fall down is as impressive a goal as any, in my opinion. It defines a character. It's as great a goal as wanting to protect something or someone.

The reason Tolkein works is because it's fiction -- the author can make fortitous chance and side-characters be remarkably key. In an RPG, you don't have these luxuries.
 

Just recently, one of my players (playing a Swordmaster in a WoT campaign, quite a bit Min/Max) told me the goal for his character was to be so good with the blade (and renowned for it), that he would no longer need to actually draw his sword to settle disputes.
The mere mention of his name and a cold stare should be more than sufficient.

Me on the other hand (from a DM perspective) found this goal to be rather pointless.

Where, I asked, is the excitement in winning staredowns with NPCs who wouldn't last five seconds against you anyways?

The fun is in getting there, and once your there, the fun is in testing your limits.

Whats the point of telling a story about a guy, when you know there is noone, or hardly noone, who could beat him anyways?

Cause it's entertaining!
 

Zweischneid said:
Just recently, one of my players (playing a Swordmaster in a WoT campaign, quite a bit Min/Max) told me the goal for his character was to be so good with the blade (and renowned for it), that he would no longer need to actually draw his sword to settle disputes.
The mere mention of his name and a cold stare should be more than sufficient.

Me on the other hand (from a DM perspective) found this goal to be rather pointless.
Where, I asked, is the excitement in winning staredowns with NPCs who wouldn't last five seconds against you anyways?
There's been a lot of response to this statement, though all of it has been constructive, so hopefully you aren't feeling put-upon. :)

Personally, this player reminds me of myself. I'd set a goal like that. The point isn't the power itself, really, (at least for me,) but rather attaining a certain stature in the world. Have you ever watched Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid? It's an old Western with Robert Redford. At one point the Sundance Kid is playing cards, and another man calls him a cheater and challenges him to a duel. But when he learns that his opponent is the Sundance Kid, he gets scared and backs down, because he knows he'll lose the duel. It's a great scene, and the duel never takes place, specifically because the name "Sundance Kid" means something. I'd imagine your player wants that same kind of fame in the game world.

And it's not like you can't challenge such a character. If your character is 12th-level, there can easily be a 13th-level swordfighter around the corner. But the point is, most of the NPCs the PC meets in a tavern won't be that 13th-level guy, and that's a fun position to be in.

Anyway, enough of that. :p

Personally, I don't really consider powergaming to be linked to role-playing at all. They are neither beneficial nor detrimental to each other. You can have a smackdown build and still play the PC with a great amount of personality and character. You can also have an unfocused character build, and play the PC just as badly.

The only time powergaming may lead to problems is if some players are adept, and others not-so-adept, because then you wind up with a power inbalance. But in those situations, I usually like to encourage the good powergamers to help out those who aren't so skilled with character builds. Just as I'd want good role-players to encourage and stimulate other players to whom RP may not come as naturally.
 



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