Powers dropping out...

[UngeheuerLich]

In the seminar today it was mentioned several times, that lower level powers drop out.

I don´t like that. Why should someone unlearn something. Upgrading powers, ok. Essentials actually did a good job here. Heroes of the feywild too. But having to replace powers is a difficult thing.

If there is no simillar option, that is more powerful or an option that allows to replicate a lower level one, you may wish you had not leveled up, as you may use your iconic move.

On a different note, I am sad to hear, that feats are needed to make wizard spells at wills... I am not sure if I like that... (feat tax)

 

[ferratus]

I definately hated the unlearning of spells and combat techniques in 4e, especially since those abilities were often part of how you defined your character. It is hard to remain "the dream master" if you have to unlearn sleep.

If they do it by cashing in low level spell slots with at will abilities (ie. all first level spells become an at-will magic missile) that would be excellent. I've got better things to do at 15th level than to track piddly little first level spell slots.

They mentioned that fireball ramps up its damage by placing it in a higher level spell slot. If all spells are like this, then you might also cash in a bunch of low-level spell slots which you would normally dedicate to magic missile at low levels, for a few higher level spell slots in which you cast "missile storm" instead. That also be workable for me.

But unlearning character defining abilities like in 4e? FAIL.

 

[Wormwood]

In the seminar today it was mentioned several times, that lower level powers drop out.

Flavor it however you like ("My wizard brain can only hold so many spells---sorry Burning Hands but Fireball needs the space!").

And it allows powerful spells to be rare *and* level appropriate.

On a different note, I am sad to hear, that feats are needed to make wizard spells at wills... I am not sure if I like that... (feat tax)

Feats *and* class options can give you at-will powers. And I wouldn't call it a feat tax when (at least according to many folks on these very board), lots of wizards wouldn't take those feats---they'd rather rock it old school.

 

[SKyOdin]

Even as a general fan of 4E, I never liked having to replace powers. It is particularly annoying when there are no powers that function as a more powerful version of the power you just replaced. For example, it can be very, very frustrating trying to play an elementally themed wizard in base 4E.

Couldn't we get fewer powers or spells but the ones we do get scale with character level so they remain useful?

 

[Alzrius]

Just so I'm clear on this, you have to drop lower-level powers as you level up? I never played 4E, but in 3.X/Pathfinder (that I remember) this was sometimes an option, but never mandated.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

@Alzrius , it isn't technically required in 4E. What you have at higher levels is the opportunity to swap a lower level power for a higher level power. So you can keep the lower one if you want, but then you don't get the higher one. So practically, it isn't an option. Thus the complaint earlier about missing types of powers at given levels. It is fairly easy for a fighter to simply replace his "smack really hard" power from earlier with a "smack even harder" power later. Not so easy for other classes, at given points.

Edit: And if they were going to make thematic replacement a cornerstone of a system, might as well make each power scale as much as possible, and remove the largely redundant powers. (This would be my choice.)

 

[CM]

Perhaps we will see the return of lesser/standard/greater spells

Or something like

Fireball
Level: 5/7/9
Range: Long
Area: Burst 3

If prepared as a level 5 spell, deals 5d6 damage
If prepared as a level 7 spell, deals 7d6 damage
If prepared as a level 9 spell, deals 10d6 damage

Or even

Fireball
Level: 5+
Range: Long
Area: Burst 3

Deals 1d6 damage per level of the spell slot it is prepared in.

 

[TwinBahamut]

Just so I'm clear on this, you have to drop lower-level powers as you level up? I never played 4E, but in 3.X/Pathfinder (that I remember) this was sometimes an option, but never mandated.

Yeah, in 4E this is mandated, I believe. Or, at the very least, you only have a maximum of 4 (I think) Daily and Encounter Powers, so when you reach that limit you need to clear out an old one to make room for a new one.

I've never been a fan of that at all. Hearing that they might use something similar in 5E does not fill me with joy, to say the least.

 

[Dragonblade]

I think we are getting ahead of ourselves here. This mechanic could mean that you can swap lower level slots for higher level slots, not that you unlearn your spells or anything.

I say more information is needed.

 

[Sammael]

Every time you drop a lower level power and replace it with a higher level one, a baby sloth dies.

Little baby sloth will make you smile! - YouTube