Practiced Spellcaster Breaks D20

[RandomUsernamehmimo71]

I'm interested in gaining opinion on the feat Practiced Spellcaster, from Complete Devine.
The Purpose of the feat is (presumably) to allow multiclassed spellcasters to "catch up" on caster level. The feat gives them a +4 boost, Up to their character level.


My girlfriend and I are currently feuding about this feat. I feel that it Breaks the Entire D20 paradigm- No feat should ever refer to Character level, because each level should be self-contained. Each level exists by itself, independant of the levels you have taken in other classes. Until you hit 20th level, each level (possibly save 1st) MUST, by the entirety of the D20 system, be uncaring of your other levels.
Feats that refer to your "Character level" break this entire paradigm.

The cloest that I can reference in "Core" material, is the Power Attack and Combat Expertise feats. These feats, however, do not depend on Character level, they depend on Base Attack Bonus. Admittedly, BAB is identical to Character level for a non-multiclassed fighter(/barbarian/ranger), however this is still referring to something maintained/changed within the class, that can be boosted by other classes, so the paradigm is maintained.

And yet she feels this is one of the best feats ever to grace a page. She feels that the feat is balanced and necessary for a multiclassed casting class. Because if you don't have a class like this, it is impossible to ever catch up on bypassing Spell Resistance, dispelling, and other Caster Level based effects. She says that low caster levels, at high level, are worth less than they are in the mid and low levels, and this feat is a way to mitigate the loss that comes with leveling.

I understand the sentiment, but I don't want to allow a feat which so wretchedly breaks the entire Idea of Classes, D&D, D20, and Level-Based Character progression entirely.

Opinions highly appreciated.

Colin "Isn't Thanksgiving supposed to be about NOT fighting?" Davis

 

[Kalanyr]

Spell Resistance frequently refers to character level, as does ECL, and Treasure by (character) level. Leadership also directly refers to character level. So I'm not sure its such a big deal.

 

[Doomhawk]

While it is aesthetically pleasing to have feats that don't refer to character level, I don't see how it's integral to the d20 system. Practiced Spellcaster fills a very needed gap in the multiclass caster; namely, making it competitive against opponents with SR.

 

[The Spectrum Rider]

Stunning Fist (core feat, Player's Handbook): You may attempt a stunning attack once per day for every four levels you have attained....

I don't see the problem. However, I do think WotC is a little obsessed with avoiding any character's spellcasting level from falling behind, with feats like this and the many PrCs that grant "+1 spellcasting level per PrC level."

I think an ordinary split-class - say, fighter/cleric - is a perfectly good character; but judging from the PrCs and feats, WotC sees it as unworkable. But admittedly I'm not a power gamer.

The Spectrum Rider

 

[Testament]

Even when not powergaming, multiclassed spellcasters quickly become fifth wheels. I should know, I've tried it, and you quickly become irrelevant. The mediocre to awful BAB of spellcasters pushes you behind on the combat power curve, and the low caster levels pushes you even further behind on that curve.

Practiced spellcaster adresses that. While it's powerful, its still a feat, and can't be taken as a bonus feat. As for your other complaint, I simply don't get it. Lots of things refer to level, many examples are given above.

 

[Thanee]

Practiced Spellcaster refers to HD not character level.

Both, caster level and HD are commonly used values in spellcasting.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Li Shenron]

My girlfriend and I are currently feuding about this feat. I feel that it Breaks the Entire D20 paradigm- No feat should ever refer to Character level, because each level should be self-contained. Each level exists by itself, independant of the levels you have taken in other classes. Until you hit 20th level, each level (possibly save 1st) MUST, by the entirety of the D20 system, be uncaring of your other levels.
Feats that refer to your "Character level" break this entire paradigm.

I think you have made up the paradigm by yourselve There are so many things in D&D which surely build up with levels, but at the end you refer to the total. I see the feat may look a little strange, but it was intended as a sort of "fix" for a weak choice in the game.

Besides, girlfriends are always right

 

[Lord Pendragon]

I feel that it Breaks the Entire D20 paradigm- No feat should ever refer to Character level, because each level should be self-contained. Each level exists by itself, independant of the levels you have taken in other classes. Until you hit 20th level, each level (possibly save 1st) MUST, by the entirety of the D20 system, be uncaring of your other levels.

Take a look at the rogue and barbarian's Uncanny Dodge ability some time. Practiced Spellcaster doesn't "break the D20 paradigm." Abilities that are additive across levels and even across classes have been there all along.

Practiced Spellcaster is a great feat. A multiclass spellcaster is still going to be hampered by the loss of higher-level spells vs. a single-classed spellcaster, but this way at least the spell levels the multiclass does have will be useful in the encounters the party faces.

 

[RandomUsernamehmimo71]

Well, I certainly agree that it's a useful feat, and it is somewhat necessary for multiclass wizards.

Treasure and ECL I discount, since they aren't things they PCs deal with directly..

Leadership is such a broken feat it's not funny. But OK.

But I'll have to give it to you on Stunning Fist. Core D&D. Per level, not per Character level. I'm boned there.


Basically, I agree that many things referr to the total number, but It seems inherently outside the class system to me, to have a class "Know" something about your character level.

But I'll admit the rules aparently don't back me up. She can take the darned feat, but I don't have to like it

Thanks.
-E1ven

 

[FireLance]

I feel that it Breaks the Entire D20 paradigm- No feat should ever refer to Character level, because each level should be self-contained. Each level exists by itself, independant of the levels you have taken in other classes. Until you hit 20th level, each level (possibly save 1st) MUST, by the entirety of the D20 system, be uncaring of your other levels.
Feats that refer to your "Character level" break this entire paradigm.

The cloest that I can reference in "Core" material, is the Power Attack and Combat Expertise feats. These feats, however, do not depend on Character level, they depend on Base Attack Bonus. Admittedly, BAB is identical to Character level for a non-multiclassed fighter(/barbarian/ranger), however this is still referring to something maintained/changed within the class, that can be boosted by other classes, so the paradigm is maintained.

I understand the sentiment, but I don't want to allow a feat which so wretchedly breaks the entire Idea of Classes, D&D, D20, and Level-Based Character progression entirely.

Look at the section I've underlined above. This is the crux of the matter. Practised Spellcaster seems non-d20 because it fixes a problem which itself breaks the idea of classes, D&D, d20 and level-based character progression.

In a nutshell, the problem is this: caster levels do not stack. Fighter BAB stacks with Ranger BAB which stacks with Cleric BAB. Skill points from Druid levels stack with skill points from Bard levels and skill points from Wizard levels. The base saves of a Monk stack with those of a Paladin and a Sorcerer. The Uncanny Dodge class feature of a Rogue stacks with that of a Barbarian. With the exception of some prestige classes, caster level does not.

Flavour issues aside (some people don't like the idea of mixing arcane and divine spellcaster levels, or the idea that non-spellcasting classes can increase a spellcaster's caster level), this severely hampers multiclassed spellcasters at higher levels. Fix the problem of non-stacking spellcaster levels, and think Practised Spellcaster will no longer be necessary.