Practiced Spellcaster Breaks D20

[Verequus]

Fix the problem of non-stacking spellcaster levels, and think Practised Spellcaster will no longer be necessary.

Not true - in Elements of Magic Revised, a replacement for the core magic, caster levels stack like the BAB, but it fixes only the problem with pure casters - as soon you multiclass into another non-casting class, you are facing the very same problem again. I don't know, if a Practiced Spellcaster feat is the correct way to address the problem - it is still a feat, which has to be taken for viability of the actual class choice, in opposite to the pure caster, who can spend the feat slot for something better. A good rules set should result in a rough equality of power regardless of choice - but if this is possible with a class-based system? (A non-class-based system will definitely allow unbalanced choices, but the corridor of equality could be broader.)

 

[Thanee]

Basically, I agree that many things referr to the total number, but It seems inherently outside the class system to me, to have a class "Know" something about your character level.

It's just mechanics... the character or class doesn't need to know anything about it.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Sue Bloodbucket]

I think that girlfiends are always right.

Now that this is stated:
What problems do you have with paradigmshifts anyways?
Isn't the D&D system build to embrace new rules and new terms-of-play?
In my opinion this is exactly why this system still exists...
although in a new and improved way.
So i am goning as far as to say it needs some shifts in it's paradigms from time to time.

regards to wifes and girlfriends! may they never meet!
Sue

 

[hong]

What's particularly cool is that I had a feat on my website that did exactly what Practiced Spellcaster does, a year before it was published. The only real difference that it gave +2 caster levels instead of +4. It's always nice when WotC out-twinks your own stuff.

 

[Silveras]

Look at the section I've underlined above. This is the crux of the matter. Practised Spellcaster seems non-d20 because it fixes a problem which itself breaks the idea of classes, D&D, d20 and level-based character progression.

In a nutshell, the problem is this: caster levels do not stack. Fighter BAB stacks with Ranger BAB which stacks with Cleric BAB. Skill points from Druid levels stack with skill points from Bard levels and skill points from Wizard levels. The base saves of a Monk stack with those of a Paladin and a Sorcerer. The Uncanny Dodge class feature of a Rogue stacks with that of a Barbarian. With the exception of some prestige classes, caster level does not.

Flavour issues aside (some people don't like the idea of mixing arcane and divine spellcaster levels, or the idea that non-spellcasting classes can increase a spellcaster's caster level), this severely hampers multiclassed spellcasters at higher levels. Fix the problem of non-stacking spellcaster levels, and think Practised Spellcaster will no longer be necessary.

That's why I like the Magic Effect Rating variant from Unearthed Arcana. It is a BAB-like additional stat used to replace caster level for things like Range, Duration, Area of Effect, Dice of Damage, and Caster Level checks.

Primary spellcasters (Bards, Clerics, Druids, Sorcerers, and Wizards) get +1 MER per level. Secondary spellcasters, or classes with some magic-like abilities (Paladins, Rangers, and Monks) get 1 per 2 levels. Classes that are basically non-magical (Fighters, Barbarians, and Rogues) get +1 per 4 levels.

Flavor-wise, I *do* dislike the idea that improving your knowledge of divine spellcasting also improves your arcane spellcasting effects; however, I dislike *more* the problems with mixed spellcasters.

 

[FireLance]

Not true - in Elements of Magic Revised, a replacement for the core magic, caster levels stack like the BAB, but it fixes only the problem with pure casters - as soon you multiclass into another non-casting class, you are facing the very same problem again.

That's why non-spellcaster levels ought to add some to your casting level also (although some gamers will not like the flavor of that). The Unearthed Arcana Magic Rating system mentioned by Silveras is one way to address the issue. My personal view is that system doesn't go far enough - I would prefer lesser spellcasters like paladins, rangers and monks to get +3/4 spellcaster level (like medium BAB) and non-casters like barbarians, fighters and rogues to get +1/2 spellcaster level (like poor BAB).

I don't know, if a Practiced Spellcaster feat is the correct way to address the problem - it is still a feat, which has to be taken for viability of the actual class choice, in opposite to the pure caster, who can spend the feat slot for something better.

In my view, Practised Spellcaster does a good job of alleviating the symptoms, but it doesn't make the problem go away.

 

[irdeggman]

Another example of something that crosses class boundaries is the familiar.

Some benefits are class level dependent (with all classes alowed a familiar stacking), some are character level dependent.

 

[Al'Kelhar]

I'm not sure that the feat breaks any particular d20 or D&D v.3.x paradigm, but it is certainly at the "broken" end of the feat usefulness spectrum. With one feat, a multi-class spellcaster enhances all caster level dependent elements of his or her spells by up to 4 levels. A heck of a lot of spell parameters are level dependent. Range, damage, SR penetration, bonuses granted etc. etc. This is an astounding increase in power at low to mid-levels, and a reasonable increase at higher levels. A Wiz1/Ftr4 would be casting his magic missiles as a Wiz5; a Clr1/Ftr4 would be casting his cure light wounds as a Clr5. (OK, the PC wouldn't get the feat 'til 6th level, but you get the point). Not only is it mechanically suspect, but has some really unusual consequences in-game. Suddenly, the Rog4/Wiz5 aiming for the arcane trickster PrC who'd been casting his spells as a 4th level wizard the level before is, on gaining his 9th character level, now casting his wizard spells as a 9th level wizard. Why the sudden incredible burst of power? Has he been touched by some deity of magic? This is one feat (amongst many in the "splatbooks") which I don't allow IMC.

Cheers, Al'Kelhar

 

[Saeviomagy]

I'm not sure that the feat breaks any particular d20 or D&D v.3.x paradigm, but it is certainly at the "broken" end of the feat usefulness spectrum. With one feat, a multi-class spellcaster enhances all caster level dependent elements of his or her spells by up to 4 levels. A heck of a lot of spell parameters are level dependent. Range, damage, SR penetration, bonuses granted etc. etc. This is an astounding increase in power at low to mid-levels, and a reasonable increase at higher levels. A Wiz1/Ftr4 would be casting his magic missiles as a Wiz5; a Clr1/Ftr4 would be casting his cure light wounds as a Clr5. (OK, the PC wouldn't get the feat 'til 6th level, but you get the point).

And the clr 5 is doing what? Not bloody casting cure light wounds all the time, that's what.

Really - the complaint is "something that was previously crap is made not crap by this feat, so the feat must be overpowered".

If this feat is at the broken end, I hate to imagine what 'normal' feats grant.

Not only is it mechanically suspect, but has some really unusual consequences in-game. Suddenly, the Rog4/Wiz5 aiming for the arcane trickster PrC who'd been casting his spells as a 4th level wizard the level before is, on gaining his 9th character level, now casting his wizard spells as a 9th level wizard. Why the sudden incredible burst of power? Has he been touched by some deity of magic? This is one feat (amongst many in the "splatbooks") which I don't allow IMC.

I'll agree with that. However it's no more unusual than many other feat-like abilities inherent to D&D. The guy went out, got training to shore up his terrible spellcasting ability, and now he can do it.

Or he found secret formulas in a book of ancient lore, or whatever.

 

[Gort]

Yeah, I think Practiced Spellcaster is an awesome feat. We even houseruled it to go further - our half-dragon cleric 16 uses it to cast at CL 19.