D&D 5E (2024) Circle Casting is gonna break a lot of games

[ECMO3]

Quik e


I did when I have the number of impacted squares of 15 ft compared to 25 ft radius. They way math works, increasing by 10 ft is not increasing by 66%, but by 3x the impacted area.

ok. If your goal is to get the most number of squares under your SG to look cool this will be very effective. If your goal is to win the combat efficiently with minimal cost in terms of resources for the party it won't be.

Increasing AOE by 300% does not mean 300% better in combat, it doesn't even generally mean 20% better in combat.

No, I am not saying that. Please don't put words in my mouth. I said it's situational so it's hard to say if you impact 4 creatures or 6 creatures or 9 creatures. I didn't say it's highly situational that it only occurs in long combats surrounded by enemies. I'll show the math in a second to show that even if it's just a few creatures, it's a far better option.

You said you would only use spirit guardians when surrounded by enemies and in an earlier thread you said you would only use spirit guardians in long combat

Show the math

9th Level Eldritch Knight

1. Dual Wielder, Light weapons, two weapon fighting, warmagic, Green Flame Blade 10 intelligence:
4d6+2d8+15=38

2. Sword and board Spear, PAM, Warmagic, Dueling, Green Flame Blade with 20 strength and 10 intelligence:
2d6+1d4+2d8+21=39.5

3. Greatsword, GWM, Warmagic, Green Flame Blade, 10 Intelligence:
4d6+2d8+18=41

4: Greataxe, GWM, Warmagic, Green Flame Blade, 10 Intelligence
3d12+2d8+22=50.5

5. Halberd, GWM, PAM, Warmagic, Green Flame Blade, 10 Intelligence:
3d10+1d4+2d8+27=55

That is raw damage with 100% hits and does not consider crits, action surge, magic weapons, GWF, Vex, Topple, or Graze. It does include Nick and Cleave where applicable.


Now show me your 9th level eldritch knight build that is doing "a couple of attacks at 1d8+4".

Your own anecdotal experience is not a citation. Please show proof that the typical 5e encounter is less than 3 rounds long, less at higher levels. Everything I could find from others' experiences is 5-7 rounds.

I don't need to show proof. Also show me your citation about 5-7 rounds. I said mine is from my experience, you are saying yours is not from your experience, so show me that.

The eldritch knight has 2 attacks per round at 1d8+4 damage (assuming 20 str).

Where do you get this from? No 9th level Eldritch Knight is making 2 attacks with a 1d8 weapon, 20 strength is +5 not +4 and an Eldritch Knight uses a cantrip with the attack action.

And guess what, the numbers above are for a 9th level EK. For some reason I thought Blade Barrier was a 5th level spell, it is a 6th level spell, the numbers ranging from 38-55 that I posted above are not even accurate because I should have been using an 11th level EK instead of 9th level. Here are those new numbers for each example rescaling to an 11th level EK:

1. 55.5 damage
2. 57 damage
3. 62 damage
4. 71 damage
5. 74.5 damage

That EK can either move and attack one hobgoblin for 17 damage.

No at 11th level (what I should have been using) it should be well above 50 damage on most builds.

Even with a basic 20 strength, warmagic, no fighting style, no weapon mastery, no feats and no buffs against a single target it would still be 33 damage, nearly twice the number you quoted.

I mean I guess I could pruposely do less damage, just like the Cleric can decide that not all the enemies are affected by Spirit Guardians, but why would they?

he EK spends a level 1 spell slot to augment SG. It immediately impacts 2 additional creatures for 13.5 damage each.

Which is WAY WAY less than an EK is going to do with an attack action. It is less than a weak EK will do.

 

[Sacrosanct]

ok. If your goal is to get the most number of squares under your SG to look cool this will be very effective. If your goal is to win the combat efficiently with minimal cost in terms of resources for the party it won't be.

Increasing AOE by 300% does not mean 300% better in combat, it doesn't even generally mean 20% better in combat.

I just showed an example of where it is. A common example.

You said you would only use spirit guardians when surrounded by enemies and in an earlier thread you said you would only use spirit guardians in long combat

Never said that. I said you wouldn't use SG in a 1-2 round combat. combat lasting more than a couple rounds is not "long combat"

9th Level Eldritch Knight

1. Dual Wielder, Light weapons, two weapon fighting, warmagic, Green Flame Blade 10 intelligence:
4d6+2d8+15=38

2. Sword and board Spear, PAM, Warmagic, Dueling, Green Flame Blade with 20 strength and 10 intelligence:
2d6+1d4+2d8+21=39.5

3. Greatsword, GWM, Warmagic, Green Flame Blade, 10 Intelligence:
4d6+2d8+18=41

4: Greataxe, GWM, Warmagic, Green Flame Blade, 10 Intelligence
3d12+2d8+22=50.5

5. Halberd, GWM, PAM, Warmagic, Green Flame Blade, 10 Intelligence:
3d10+1d4+2d8+27=55

That is raw damage with 100% hits and does not consider crits, action surge, magic weapons, GWF, Vex, Topple, or Graze. It does include Nick and Cleave where applicable.


Now show me your 9th level eldritch knight build that is doing "a couple of attacks at 1d8+4".

I said 5th level in my example, not 9th level. This...is not relevant or proves anything. I asked to show the math using 5th level numbers, because that's what I used in my example.

I don't need to show proof. Also show me your citation about 5-7 rounds. I said mine is from my experience, you are saying yours is not from your experience, so show me that.

Yes you do need to show proof. That's how arguments work. If you make a claim, you need to show proof other than "cuz I said so." Do a google search, the answers are there.

Compiled response from various forum and reddit conversations:

• Average/Standard Combat: Usually lasts about 3–5 rounds.
• Easy Combat: Often ends in 1–2 rounds, especially if the party is much more powerful than the enemies.
• Hard/Deadly Combat: Can last 5–7 rounds or longer, as the enemies are designed to be more challenging.
• Boss Fights: Often take 5–10 rounds or even longer, as they are intended to be significant and climactic battles.

Where do you get this from? No 9th level Eldritch Knight is making 2 attacks with a 1d8 weapon, 20 strength is +5 not +4 and an Eldritch Knight uses a cantrip with the attack action.

Again, i said 5th level in my example. No wonder your numbers look so good if you're gonna compare your 9th level against my 5th level examples.

I'll also note you conveniently keep ignoring how SG keeps going. It's not just one round. Split that initial damage the EK isn't doing over several rounds compared to SG if you want to be remotely accurate.

 

[Sacrosanct]

once you can hit everyone in the room, extra size (or range) doesn't help.

And in my experience, Spirit Guardians can hit everyone most of the time. Expanding it might save a Disengage or Dash now and then, but not usually worth the cost IMO.

Extra duration however, turning 1 minute into 1 hour, is going to really help spell slot economy.

Sure. If the extra radius isn’t working for you, extend it an hour for another whole encounter or two. Is that worth one round of attacks by an EK? Or arcane trickster?

 

[mellored]

Sure. If the extra radius isn’t working for you, extend it an hour for another whole encounter or two. Is that worth one round of attacks by an EK? Or arcane trickster?

Do it before battle.

 

[mellored]

How does Prolong stacks with Sorcerer's Extended metamagic?

Can we get 48 hour spells?