Practiced Spellcaster + Wild Mage = CL?

[Mistwell]

Assume a 10th level Wizard enters the prestige class Wild Mage, which comes with the ability Wild Magic:

"A wild mage casts spells differently from any other arcane spellcaster. She reduces her caster level by 3 for spells she casts from now on. However, every time she casts a spell, her use of wild magic adds 1d6 to her adjusted caster level."

This spellcaster also takes the Practiced Spellcaster feat, which says:

"Your caster level for the chosen spellcasting class increases by 4. This benefit can't increase your caster level to higher than your hit dice."

What is their caster level now?

I can see three ways for it to go:

1) 7th level + 1d6, as the Practiced Spellcaster feat has no impact on this analysis;
2) 7th level + 1d6, but not less than 10th level. Practiced Spellcaster will make up the difference between 7th level and 10th level, but only after the 1d6 is rolled.
3) 10th level +1d6, as Practiced Spellcaster makes up the difference between 7th level and 10th level as soon as it is applicable from becoming a Wild Mage.

I'd like to know what people's opinions are from a purely Rules As Written perspective AND from a House Rule balance perspective.

In my opinion, the RAW would have it work like #3. She reduces her caster level by three, which activates Practiced Spellcaster to increase it by up to four (but not more than her hit dice). She then adds a 1d6 to her caster level every time she casts a spell.

From a balance perspective I am unsure. I might go with #2 as a middle ground. I would not go with #1 as I think the Practiced Spellcaster feat should help the caster in this situation at least somewhat. I am not so convinced #3 is unbalanced, since having a caster level increase of 1-6 isn't all that powerful anymore in 3.5, as caster level seems to have a lot less importance in 3.5 than it did in 3.0.

 

[Crothian]

I do it as 1

 

[IcyCool]

I'd do it as #2.

You have a Caster Level of 7 + 1d6 with respect to spells you cast. If your 1d6 roll winds up being 2 or less, practiced spellcaster takes up the slack.

 

[Thanee]

Wild Magic does not change your caster level, unless when you cast a spell (i.e. only a temporary change).
Practiced Spellcaster does not change your caster level, unless when you gain a level (i.e. only a permanent change).

They don't interact at all.

The Wild Mage's caster level is 10th for all purposes other than casting spells.
When casting spells, the Wild Mage's caster level is 7th+1d6.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Ferrix]

That's an interesting reading of Practiced Spellcaster Thanee.

Considering caster level increases and such are calculated in the most beneficial way, and I particularly find no problem with it, it would turn out as number 3.

Since Wild Magic reduces the characters caster level by 3, you then add up to 4 (practiced spellcaster), and then top it off with the 1d6 roll when you cast the spell.

Even if it applies only when you cast spells, practiced spellcaster still applies in the most beneficial manner when you cast a spell.

At least that's my personal interpretation and there is really very little if anything broken with it. You have to a) qualify for the Wild Mage PrC which takes ranks in Use Magic Device and the Magical Aptitude feat, and b) spend another feat on practiced spellcaster. Sure, it's a useful boon, but it's not overpowering, particularly with the costs that come associated with it.

 

[Crothian]

At least that's my personal interpretation and there is really very little if anything broken with it. You have to a) qualify for the Wild Mage PrC which takes ranks in Use Magic Device and the Magical Aptitude feat, and b) spend another feat on practiced spellcaster. Sure, it's a useful boon, but it's not overpowering, particularly with the costs that come associated with it.

So, as long as a class is hard to get into and has a negative effect in it, it is alright to have a single feat turn that negative into a positive?

Wild mage though, is not that hard to get into. Sure it costs a feat (like many prestige classes) but wizards get bonus feats. Sure it has a skill that needs x ranks (like many prestige classes) but wizards will have a high intelligence and get plenty of skill points.

I wouldn't call it over powered, but I think it actually takes away a lot from the wild mage. THe idea is that magic is random, can be good can be bad. THis feats gets rid of the bad and really ruins in my eyes the thrill of the wild mage.

 

[Scion]

Given the wording of each I could see either 2 or 3 being how it works. Although for balance purposes I'd likely choose 2 over 3.

I'd look at it like this:

Everytime the guy casts a spell he has several modifiers on his caster level.
-3 from the wild mage, +4 from the feat (with a specific maximum) and +d6 from the wild mage.

So, If he has a normal caster level of 10 he would roll the d6, add up all of those modifiers, and then see how the total will turn out. If the d6-3 would take it below 10 then it would go up to 10, if it would go above then the +4 cannot do anything.

Of course, I would also apply things like orange ioun stone last, after all other modifications, but things such as negative level penalties 'before', as in they would take off of the original caster level. Again, this would be for balance purposes.

I believe that the sage said to apply the feat 'whenever it is most beneficial' or something like that. In case anyone cares.

 

[Rkhet]

This is in the Faq, actually:

How does Practiced Spellcaster interact with the wild
magic class feature of the wild mage (from Complete
Arcane)?
The -3 penalty and +1d6 bonus to the wild magefs caster
level are applied as a single step in the process of determining
the wild magefs caster level. Since Practiced Spellcasterfs
bonus is always applied when it is most beneficial to the
character (see previous answer), a wild mage with Practiced
Spellcaster would typically apply the wild magic class feature
first (subtracting 3 and adding 1d6 to her caster level) and then
add the Practiced Spellcaster benefit, up to a maximum value
equal to her character level.
For example, if a 5th-level wizard/4th-level wild mage with
Practiced Spellcaster rolled a 1 on the 1d6 bonus to her caster
level, her caster level for that spell would be 9th (base 9th, -3
from wild magic penalty, +1 from wild magic bonus, +4 from
Practiced Spellcaster up to a maximum equal to her character
level). If she rolled a 6, her caster level would be 12th (base
9th, -3 from wild magic penalty, +6 from wild magic bonus;
the Practiced Spellcaster bonus would not apply since it would
increase her caster level above her character level).
On the other hand, imagine a wild mage whose caster level
(before applying the effects of the wild magic class feature) is
less than her character level, such as a wild mage with levels of
rogue or other non-spellcasting class. She might well choose to
apply the Practiced Spellcaster bonus first, before applying the
wild magic modifiers. A rogue 4/wizard 5/wild mage 4 would
have a base caster level of 9th before any other modifiers are
applied. Adding Practiced Spellcasterfs bonus would increase
this to 13th, at which point the penalty and bonus from wild
magic would be applied. The Sage recommends that players
averse to frequently recalculating caster level avoid playing a
character with this combination, as it is likely to cause
headaches.

 

[blaine_evans]

thankyou Mr. FAQ. i was going to post it myself. you apply both at the same time.

when rolling the 1d6, but get less than 3, you stay at the same caster level (thanks to practised spellcaster) but 4+, you get a bonus.

blaine

 

[Mistwell]

So officially it's number 2. Perfect! Thank you so much for posting that. It's been a while since I read the FAQ. Makes sense, and it matches with my first house-rule instincts (which to me is a good sign).