Pramas: D&D his way??
- Thread starter TerraDave
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SteveC
Doing the best imitation of myself
...and here we have another crack in the wall of compatibility that was built during the OGL. Yes, by all means we need another 3.75 product! Pathfinder, Monte, and now Chris Pramas can all get into a battle for the remaining 3X loyalists.
The thing is, of course, is that I would probably buy the thing and read (but never use) it. Chris has a lot of good karma piled up based on Green Ronin's work, so he'd have one sale in me. But I'm still goin' to 4E.
--Steve
The thing is, of course, is that I would probably buy the thing and read (but never use) it. Chris has a lot of good karma piled up based on Green Ronin's work, so he'd have one sale in me. But I'm still goin' to 4E.
--Steve
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
The way he's speaking up there, it's not exactly clear that he's planning a whole line of products based on his own ideas. More just spitballing about how to make a buck off of something he can't stop doing.
Pathfinder is making a whole new line. Pramas might possibly publish one book, or not.
I know this is the 4e forum, so we all have the Jump to Conclusions feat, but come on, dude!
Dire Bare
Legend
I find it amazing how many people can read that post and come away with, "OMG! Pramas/Green Ronin is coming out with their own 3.75 d20!!!"
Pramas is merely speculating at this point. He makes it quite clear he has no current plans for GR's own take on yet another D&D-with-the-serial-numbers-filed-off roleplaying game. In fact, in that very post he lists many good reasons why he shouldn't contemplate such a thing.
But he is a game designer, and he is tinkering, because that is what game designers do. He's also a very busy game designer and business owner, and is wondering whether there is a way he can financially justify the time he's spending tinkering.
I don't expect Pramas to make any decisions regarding going 4e, supporting another RPG like Pathfinder, creating his own D&D clone, or some combination thereof until he's got all the facts and players on the table. He's a cautious dude, and I respect that.
Pramas is merely speculating at this point. He makes it quite clear he has no current plans for GR's own take on yet another D&D-with-the-serial-numbers-filed-off roleplaying game. In fact, in that very post he lists many good reasons why he shouldn't contemplate such a thing.
But he is a game designer, and he is tinkering, because that is what game designers do. He's also a very busy game designer and business owner, and is wondering whether there is a way he can financially justify the time he's spending tinkering.
I don't expect Pramas to make any decisions regarding going 4e, supporting another RPG like Pathfinder, creating his own D&D clone, or some combination thereof until he's got all the facts and players on the table. He's a cautious dude, and I respect that.
SteveC
Doing the best imitation of myself
This is a good point, but it really is an example of what we'll start to see more and more of, now that the OGL is done. "D&D done right," in this case it's literally that. I'm not trying to get on Chris' case, mind you, I'm just showing my disappointment that we're going in this direction. Sort of like when King Theoden wonders "how did it all come down to this?" ... except that I'm nowhere near that cool.Kamikaze Midget said:
I'd say whether Chris makes a book or not, we're going to see much more of this sort of thing. When it's Monte Cook, Erik Mona or Chris Pramas doing it I'd even say that it's even pretty cool to see: I like their work! When we see the inevitable "some guy you've never heard of does 3.75," I'm going to be ill.
I'm expecting to lose a lot of sick days in the next couple years.
--Steve
Lord Zardoz
Explorer
The only people who I think have ever been entirely satisfied with any edition of D&D would be Gary Gygax, and perhaps Dave Arneson. Everyone else ends up modifying or ignoring certain aspects of the rules of whatever particular edition they play.
There are a few things that tend to draw me to D&D as opposed to other systems.
- The general scale of HP vs typical weapon damage. Consider 1d8+1 damage against a pool of about 40 Hp. The resulting number of hits to drop an opponent feels essentially correct.
- The way the durability of the players scale as they level up. This interacts with the previous point nicely. Weaker monsters tend to retain viability much longer than they do in video games, and generally keeps the progression more 'grounded'.
- Non spell point systems. As flawed as Vancian magic is, it does prevent players from basically spamming All Magic Missile All The Time. The Per encounter / per day / At will powers will also prevent players from either dumping all their power into a single attack or from spamming weaker abilities non stop. Weaker abilities tend to retain some utility without overshadowing stronger abilities.
- Speed of character generation. Low level characters are fast to create, and it only starts to get convoluted at mid levels. Creating a 4th edition shadowrun character is not so easy.
- The right balance of simulation and fantasy: With D&D, you do get a real feeling that your characters are not immortal and unkillable, but it does this without generally overwhelming you. Your various resources do suffer some measure of attrition, but do so at an ok rate. In Final Fantasy games / Squaresoft RPGs, you generally wont have any problems with most encounters, and resource depletion is rarely an issue (though I stopped playing the Final Fantasy series after FF6, aka FF3 in North America on the SNES).
END COMMUNICATION
There are a few things that tend to draw me to D&D as opposed to other systems.
- The general scale of HP vs typical weapon damage. Consider 1d8+1 damage against a pool of about 40 Hp. The resulting number of hits to drop an opponent feels essentially correct.
- The way the durability of the players scale as they level up. This interacts with the previous point nicely. Weaker monsters tend to retain viability much longer than they do in video games, and generally keeps the progression more 'grounded'.
- Non spell point systems. As flawed as Vancian magic is, it does prevent players from basically spamming All Magic Missile All The Time. The Per encounter / per day / At will powers will also prevent players from either dumping all their power into a single attack or from spamming weaker abilities non stop. Weaker abilities tend to retain some utility without overshadowing stronger abilities.
- Speed of character generation. Low level characters are fast to create, and it only starts to get convoluted at mid levels. Creating a 4th edition shadowrun character is not so easy.
- The right balance of simulation and fantasy: With D&D, you do get a real feeling that your characters are not immortal and unkillable, but it does this without generally overwhelming you. Your various resources do suffer some measure of attrition, but do so at an ok rate. In Final Fantasy games / Squaresoft RPGs, you generally wont have any problems with most encounters, and resource depletion is rarely an issue (though I stopped playing the Final Fantasy series after FF6, aka FF3 in North America on the SNES).
END COMMUNICATION
I'm A Banana
Potassium-Rich
I'm dubious. It's a very ballsy thing for Paizo to do what they did, and I don't think anyone else will be in a hurry to follow them. Maybe hitch their wagon, but definately not to do the same thing that they're doing.
CHILL OUT AND HAVE COME COOKIES, HOMES!
Wisdom Penalty
First Post
SteveC said:
Just wait till you see my version. I'm calling it 3.76E, because it's .01 better than Pathfinder. You'll be amazed.
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