Pramas on 4E and New Gamers

[hong]

Well, you can indeed reduce a game down to a few booklets. That's what OD&D was. But that would not deliver a very satisfying experience of killing monsters and taking their stuff, if you are coming to it from a WoW background.

 

[Fenes]

Also remeber that among the CRPGs, some of the best and most well known titles are D&D games - NWN1 and 2, Baldur's Gate I and 2. So, CVGs also serve as advertising for the tabletop game.

 

[hong]

Apropos of nothing, having played Lego Star Wars 2 and Lego Indiana Jones to death, I would KILL for Lego D&D.

 

[Fenes]

Apropos of nothing, having played Lego Star Wars 2 and Lego Indiana Jones to death, I would KILL for Lego D&D.

Can we lament how those computer games kill Lego?

 

[mhensley]

I wonder if the ppl on boardgamegeek ever bemoan about how MMOs are destroying their hobby...?

Computers destroyed the wargaming hobby twenty years ago.

 

[xechnao]

I also disagree with the assumption that

a) the average potential buyer doens't know what a RPG is

b) D&D fails to be an attractive option

and

c) that D&D has to be a stronger option than others to be a choice.

Point a) was demosntrated already to be false, b) was laid out to be false as well, and c) assumes wrongly that people will only buy one thing, and not two. As many of us play D&D and C/VGames, D&D just has to be attractive, which it is.

Whatever. You want to say the above abc points are false? So be it. But nothing is really demonstrated.

If it were not for you and me, already heavily invested and hardcore in rpgs that 4e PHB as it is would not even get printed. Who do you believe the 4e first print selled out to? Those that do not know or have cared what D&D about is?
OTOH video games, minis or card games need no one such as ourselves to help them establish a market. Just a TV add, put them on the shelf and you are good to go.

 

[hong]

Whatever. You want to say the above abc points are false? So be it. But nothing is really demonstrated.

If it were not for you and me, already heavily invested and hardcore in rpgs that 4e PHB as it is would not even get printed. Who do you believe the 4e first print selled out to? Those that do not know or have cared what D&D about is?
OTOH video games, minis or card games need no one such as ourselves to help them establish a market. Just a TV add, put them on the shelf and you are good to go.

You really think it's that easy to market videogames...?

 

[Imaro]

Thought I'd chime in here...

I think I agree with almost everything Pramas wrote as far as bringing new gamers in. It's funny how people will talk about information load and their players not being willing to read a 2 page document on a campaign world and then turn around and claim 800+ pages is an asset to bringing in new people. And just for those claiming a 300+ book is the "norm" here's a few examples...

nWoD corebook about 200 pages
Blue Rose corebook about 200 pages
Star Wars Saga ed. tops at about 300 pages
Elric of Melnibone corebook (runequest version) about 180 pages

and these are for complete rules not just rules for a player.

As far as videogame vs. tabletop one thing everyone seems to be overlooking is at least one person has to read the entire rules and create or buy an adventure to run the game. With videogames that's not necessary at all.

Which brings me to another drawback, players vs. DM's. The DM has to read all three books (or at least have an understanding of them) and if sales are anything to go by, I think most people coming into D&D would rather play than DM. With WoW that's possible, all your friends can team up and there is no odd man out... with tabletop that's not really possible. The page count also discourages new people from DM'ing instead of just playing and this definitely adversely affects the hobby. Player's can introduce as many people as they want to the D&D rules, but unless they have a DM they aren't playing... A DM can actually introduce players to the full experience of the game.

 

[hong]

Computers destroyed the wargaming hobby twenty years ago.

No, it just moved online.

 

[xechnao]

The problem for WotC is, if we reduce the argument to the following ...

"Would a "kid" (for any given value of "kid") buy these dense tomes of 832 total pages ... or this Halo 3 disc?"

... and ...

"Getting started with these 832 pages takes longer than getting started with this Halo 3 disc" ...

... then D&D will never, ever equal the utility of a console game. Never. Until it becomes a console game itself. So it's a fools errand to lambast 4e for not being as easy to access as a console game, for this is a holy grail that can never be found. Unless we reduce the game to just the minis and a note saying "large monsters are badass. Now pretend". But then Halo 3 will win again.

So I don't think even a basic version of D&D will appeal to those who choose a console game because of ease of use. And thus, what WotC needs to do is find other means of attracting new players. Maybe they should double the page count? That would intrigue and mystify people, if nothing else. And the new players would flock to the game!

/M

How about they start selling rpg ideas with comics or even novels and then expand the gaming experience from there?