Prestige Class: Protector of Yeihd

[Torx]

Looking for some feedback on 5 priestly prestige classes meant to bring back the feeling of 2nd edit. specialty priests. I know I've made them too powerful, particularly the entry requirements. The point is to focus them on being a cleric for minimum 3 levels before entering the new class (something I probably need to rethink). So some feedback would be appreciated.

Two last notes: All abilities are treated as spell-like abilities unless otherwise noted. Members of these prestige classes are forbidden from casting spells belonging to the banned domains.

Protector of Yeihd

Requirements:
Alignment: Lawful Good
Ability Score: Con 16, Wis 14
Base Attack Bonus: +4
Feats: Dodge, Toughness
Spellcasting: 3rd level Divine spells

Domains: Healing, Law, Protection
Banned Domains: Air, Animal, Chaos, Death, Earth, Evil, Magic, Plant, Sun, Trickery, Water

Lvl Att   F  R  W     Spells       Special
1 -- 1 --1--1--1--+1divine +1 to Armor Bonus
2 -- 2 --2--1--1--+1divine Immune to Disease
3 -- 3 --3--2--2--+1divine +2 to Armor Bonus
4 -- 3 --4--2--2--+1divine Immune to Poison
5 -- 4 --5--3--3--+1divine +3 to Armor Bonus
6 -- 5 --6--3--3--+1divine Immune to Cold
7 -- 6 --7--4--4--+1divine +4 to Armor Bonus
8 -- 6 --8--4--4--+1divine Immune to Fire
9 -- 7 --9--5--5--+1divine +5 to Armor Bonus
10-- 8 -10--5--5--+1divine Immune to School/Domain of choice

Class Features:
Hit Die: 1d10
Class Skills: Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Knowledge (Int), Listen (Wis), Scry (Int)
Skill Points at each level: 4 + Int modifier
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Armor (heavy) and lower, Shield, Simple Weapon. Favored weapon is Hammer.
Weapon and Armor Restrictions: None.

 

[LightPhoenix]

1) Again, either axe the ability reqs, or make them odd numbers.

2) This is ridiculously powerful. I don't even know where to begin. This really needs to be toned down. Perhaps if you could explain your decisions, I could be more helpful.

LightPhoenix

 

[Torx]

Thanks for replying - this is all fairly new to me and I'm trying to do my best to balance these (maybe with a slight edge over other classes, as no one in my groups like to play clerics).

1) I happen to like the ability req's - I never read that Dragon article, so I don't know any reasoning behind cutting them. They demand a certain innate ability before becoming an accepted member of a god's elite.

2) Part of what counterbalances these classes is the banned domains. Clerics who come into these classes cannot cast even low-level spells belonging to one of these banned domains, and I try to make a nice balance.

This is supposed to be the god of protection, and in protecting his followers, they in turn can protect the weak (I haven't worked up official documentation on the organization yet, it's all in me head at the moment).

The armor bonuses do not stack (ie at 9th level they would have gained +5, not +15). My hesitance is with the immunities, as I'm sure yours is. Perhaps resistance is better. What are your thoughts?

 

[Crothian]

The reason to make the attribure requirement odd is so that odd numbers still mean something. Raising to an even number gives one a higher bonus, raising to an odd allows you to qualify for things (prestige classes, feats, etc.)

Reduce the HD and the Skill points. Why are Hide and Listen class Skills? If your god is protecting you, do you really need to hide? By knowledge, do you mean all knowledges or just Knowledge Religion?

Why do you need Dodge and toughness? Again, if your god is protecting you why would you choose defensive feats like this?

I'd up the Divine spell level to 3 and nix the BAB requirement.

What doamins does the god allow? If it's none of those banned domains then no one would have those domains to lose? And if it is some of those banned domains why does the god's prestige class ban domains he allows?

Use Base Attack progression that it is in the PHB. Same for saving throw progression.

Decide on a focuus for the class and give abilities that reflect that. Explain how the +X to armor bonus works.

Reduce spell progression to once every other level and get rid of immunities. Immunties are insanely powerful. Use REsistance instead.

Those are my thoughts and changes I'd recommend.

 

[RHM]

First off, it's way too overpowered. You must consider what the cleric taking this prestige class gives up: turn undead and a better fort save. He gets better hit dice, immunities, and an armor class improvement, and he keeps his spell progression. Not exactly on the level.

Second, ability requirements are a bad idea. The WIS requirement is actually almost redundant anyway since your cleric needs at least a 13 WIS to cast 3rd-level divine spells (a requirement of the class). Class requirements should be based on decisions by the character (i.e. skill ranks, feats chosen, etc.), not die rolls (i.e. ability scores, hit points, etc.).

I actually agree with a lot of what Crothian said, so I won't bother repeating it. If you can, look at some "official" prestige classes and maybe even try using one as a template first before diving in on your own.

 

[Torx]

Thanks for your input, I really appreciate it. I'm going to reply to each of Crothian's points.

"The reason to make the attribure requirement odd is so that odd numbers still mean something. Raising to an even number gives one a higher bonus, raising to an odd allows you to qualify for things (prestige classes, feats, etc.)"

Good point, this clarifies what LightPhoenix said that I didn't truly understand. I will make them odd numbers, or cut them as other people suggest

"Reduce the HD and the Skill points. Why are Hide and Listen class Skills? If your god is protecting you, do you really need to hide? By knowledge, do you mean all knowledges or just Knowledge Religion?"

I like the HD high, it suggests a certain amount of tougness and stamina required for this class. The skill points I agree with. Hide is a also something I should change. By knowledge, I did mean all knowledges - but again, I think you make a good point, and I will change it to religion.

"Why do you need Dodge and toughness? Again, if your god is protecting you why would you choose defensive feats like this?"

The god (Yeihd in this case) does not put an invulnerable shield around the Protector. He provides he/she with the faculties necessary to defend themselves and others. I believe that he would require a member of his elite to be able to adequatly defend themselves before they join the ranks.

"I'd up the Divine spell level to 3 and nix the BAB requirement.

Do you mean up it to 4? I could do that. I've been thinking of getting rid of BAB reqs for most of my divine prestige classes. Thanks for the idea.

"What doamins does the god allow? If it's none of those banned domains then no one would have those domains to lose? And if it is some of those banned domains why does the god's prestige class ban domains he allows?"

The god allows spells cast from any domain that is not banned as well as those spells not associated with a domain. (The same is true for the other prestige classes I have posted). He does grant spells to those banned domains for his normal clerics. I follow the 2nd edit Planescape rules for gods, the more followers - the more powerful the god. He grants all domains to his standard clerics to gain more devout followers.

Also in my game (I grant it will be different in others, but I am making these for my game), clerics will not be able to gain high level spells without joining one of the prestige classes. If they don't have enough faith and piety to become a member, they don't have enough to gain the approval for high spells.

"Use Base Attack progression that it is in the PHB. Same for saving throw progression."

Why? What is wrong with changing them? I think my BAB and Saving throw progressions go along with the theme of the class. Do you have any argument against that? If it is because you believe them to be too powerful or another reason I would like to know (sorry if that came off rash - I'm trying to remain very open-minded).

"Decide on a focuus for the class and give abilities that reflect that. Explain how the +X to armor bonus works."

I thought the focus was fairly clear - I apologize if not. The armor bonus wasn't uber-clear, but it does follow with what WotC does with their classes (sneak attack, BAB, saving throw, etc) so I thought it would be implied. My mistake.

"Reduce spell progression to once every other level and get rid of immunities. Immunties are insanely powerful. Use Resistance instead."

Right, immunities gone (I think I'll keep disease and poison immunities - no more powerful than a low-level paladin) resistance in.

Why change spell progression? Aren't the banned domains enough counterbalance?

And RHM's point:

"Second, ability requirements are a bad idea. The WIS requirement is actually almost redundant anyway since your cleric needs at least a 13 WIS to cast 3rd-level divine spells (a requirement of the class). Class requirements should be based on decisions by the character (i.e. skill ranks, feats chosen, etc.), not die rolls (i.e. ability scores, hit points, etc.)."

Thanks for pointing out the redundancy, I hadn't thought of that. That's why I'm posting this here first. I disagree with the ability req's point. Most classes perhaps, but these are divine classes. It is a reciprical decision to join one of these classes, part by the character, but the god is not going to accept a weakling into a group of protectors. My 2¢