Prestige Class Rules should be for players only

[BSF]

*laugh* I have stated out HERO NPC's. Yes, that is somewhat painful.

I like creating NPC's. Though, they are more than just stat blocks. Once I have a concept finalized, I may stat it out. I suspect many of the people here actually do the same. But, maybe I am wrong.

How many people simply stat out a creature/NPC without any thought to what the personality/motivations/history are? Are your statted NPC's just a stat block, or are they a personality that is statted?

 

[Particle_Man]

Sometimes it's fun for the PCs to fight a Blackguard or a Cancer Mage instead of the same old Rangers and ex-Paladins.

Every rule the PCs follow, the NPCs should follow too...

Minor Hijack warning. Cancer Mage? Is that your own creation or is it somewhere in a published work? I have a vision of the archenemy of Sir Mulder and Lady Scully.

 

[Mordane76]

Minor Hijack warning. Cancer Mage? Is that your own creation or is it somewhere in a published work? I have a vision of the archenemy of Sir Mulder and Lady Scully.

Cancer Mage is from the Book of Vile Darkness...


/HIJACK

 

[Emirikol]

I can understand that it may be meaningful to "CR" a character according to the rules, but isn't this just as easily 'winged'? Like the DMG says, sometimes 'fair' isn't fun. The DM has to cheat sometimes in the essence of enjoyment.

Time really is a problem for me, as I have a job and a life, so fully certing out character never ever happens for me. I more commonly just use one wholesale from some other adventure and then just add what I need for abilities if a PrC strikes me as interesting. I just "title" the character a "Cancer Mage" if that seems relevant too. Calculating pre-requisites seems a great waste of time.

NPC's also tend to die in about 10 minutes of battle and if they're just around causing trouble and get away 'to fght another day' then certing them out was a waste of time in the first place. YOu could just do a short stat block then...

Zimbo the Cancer Mage, male hum Wiz10/Cancer Mage 10; Description: This guy won't get caught but will cast such and such spell at such and such time to annoy the characters.


jh

 

[Tsyr]

Zimbo the Cancer Mage, male hum Wiz10/Cancer Mage 10; Description: This guy won't get caught but will cast such and such spell at such and such time to annoy the characters.

You have already ruined it for me. You have said that I cannot catch this guy. It's in his description that I cannot catch him. He is thus no longer of any interest to me.

Any NPC in my game, roleplaying aside, could be created by a PC If I let them pick the race/classes used (Obviously they couldnt be a Dragon Godsworn, because PCs aren't able to be dragons (or usually Godsworn, since the only prequisite for being a Godsworn is having been alive when there were still gods in my world... about 2000 years ago) in my game. But if they were, they could duplicate any Dragon Godsworn NPC I've ever made.

My mentality is that if a PC were in the right position to do so, he should be able to do anything anyone else in the world can do.

 

[BSF]

Emirikol,
Clearly you and I approach these things differently. That's cool, I respect that.

I stat out NPC's as fully as I can. I also stat out at least as many potential allies as potential enemies for my game. In either case, most of my NPC's begin as a concept. As I have posted earlier, I don't stat out every NPC, but eventually, the NPC may need a statblock. Having the concept allows me to rough out the statblock in 15-20 minutes while I munch food. (Seriously, I do 80-90% of my NPC's at lunch, it is a great way for me to forget about work.) If the NPC is not very complicated, I might be able to do the finish work with the rest of lunch. Otherwise, it will wait until I get home.

As other people have said, it is important to me that I play by the same rules as the players. It sounds like you try to focus your energies in different directions. So long as you and your players are having fun, you are achieving everything that you need to out of the game.

FWIW - You can get some generalized templates for NPC's out of the DMG. I have used these in the past for the lower-level cannon fodder (5th of less) that a BBEG may put out to harass the PC's. I sometimes find them bland, but as you say, they don't stand up to combat for very long. So, the Players don't seem to notice the similarities. You might be able to take those and use it as the rough-in then tack on the abilities you want to add. It doesn't suit my style, but it might make it easier for you? I don't know.

 

[Psion]

It seems that creating adventures and NPC villains is time-consuming enough for a DM that adding a prestige class to the design of an NPC is pretty much a waste of time that could otherwise be spent writing a good plot. Personally, I just use a normal character class and if I'm even considering a prestige class, I'll just skip the details and slap on some abilities as feats. Worrying about pre-requisites? C'mon. What DM gives a crap about inane details like that?[/b]

Raises hand.

I use prestige classes WAY more than the players do.

IME, prestige classes aren't that difficult. In fact, I usually have an easier time than the PCs, because I build the end product while sometimes players lack the foresight to pick the right skills and feats ahead of time. Knowing the skill and feat prerequisites, it's a straightforward process of determining what it takes to make it there. If a class requires knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks, I know it will take 5 levels in a class with Knowledge (arcana) as a class skill.

Further, sometimes designing prestige classes is easier than core classes which often have a lot of choice. Fighters, Arcane spellcasters and core classes from d20 modern involve a lot of choices; more often, prestige classes have their abilities defined for them so there is little debate involved. If I know a character is a 3rd level mirror master or gem mage, I just jot down their abilities for a 3rd level character of that class, and I am set.

I'm not particularly fond of the notion "if the DM says he has it, he has it." Prestige classes are part of a set of rules that define the reality and background of the world. If a player is part of the bloodguard, it is nonsensible to have his abilities significantly vary from other bloodguard, for example. In most game worlds, there is no sensible attribute that makes it so PCs would operate differently from NPCs, so doing so in actually would really no jive well with my sense of consistency, and could impair the beleivability of the game.

 

[The_DarkAngel]

I find that most prestige classes are unbalanced. I tend to use them more for npc's myself. Altering the fighter class seems a) alot easier for pc's looking for something different and b) easier to make without getting unbalanced. Granted there are a few good prestige classes, such as the bladesinger but I find most have to be tweaked.

DA

 

[Norfleet]

I'd generally do combat-relevance statblocking. Block out everything that the player would actually care about. The villain's +17 modifier to Craft(Basketweaving) won't, in all likelyhood, come up, so you don't need to worry about exactly how many points he had left over after REAL skills for Craft(Basketweaving).

The level of detail needed for something is only as high as the level of detail that the players will actually be able to observe. It's a handy technique used in 3D graphical rendering.

 

[NPC]

I fall into the group of DM's who meticulously stat out their BBEG's, but who do not stat out everyone else. I also abide by the same rules as the players for BBEG/NPC creation.

In 2e, I think a DM could get away with a lot of fudging, and as long as he was fair about it. It wasn't that big a deal. Heck, the DM was making judement calls 75% of the time anyway. Creating 2e BBEG's wasn't that bad either. Just create a new class or kit or some new powers and items for them if you needed to.

For some reason, in 3e/3.5e, I don't think it's as easy to fudge. I guess it's because everything is much more codified? Maybe my players are more rule oriented? Maybe I'm just a push-over DM?

Anyway, the NPC with the escape clause, for example, just wouldn't work in my campaign. I'd need to have by the rules contingency plans ready if I wanted him to escape. And if the players are smart and cast Dimensional Anchor on him or somehow prevent his escape, more power to them!