Prestige Classes and familiars

[Moab]

Hello. I am in a little bind here. I would like to take a prestige class for my wizard, but would also like my familiar to keep advancing. I realize that this is one of the few penalties for PrCs that provide +1 caster level, but my DM is willing to discuss additional penalties to counterbalance this.

Does anyone have any ideas?

If, for example, I wanted to take the Mage of the Arcane Order prestige class, but wanted my familiar to advance, would a 10% experience penalty (kind of like the Guild Mage of Waterdeep) be enough? If not, what other options might there be?

I can live with it if there is no way to balance this, but I thought I would see if anyone had any ideas.

Thanks a lot.

 

[Mordane76]

I really think the easiest fix to this is to stagger your Mage of the Arcane Order levels with actual Wizard levels to denote the advancement of your familiar.

So you take a MOOA level, and then a Wiz level, and continue to alternate. You'll still progress at full caster level, but your acquisition of powers from both MOOA and Wiz will be slowed.


Honestly, I think this is the fairest way, within the bounds of the standard rules, to do something like this. Taking a flat XP penalty, while it hurts, isn't really the same thing.


Regardless, when you look at MOOA, what do you really trade in when you become one? Nothing -- you still get your full progression, and a bunch of nifty bonuses. All you give up is your familiar advancement and a couple bonus feats. This is pretty standard of spellcaster PrC; the only real thing that a Wizard gives up is familiar advancement and a feat or two. It's not the player's fault, but it's really a problem with spellcaster PrC, IMO.

 

[Ssressen]

Prestige class and familiars

Hi,

The Netbook of Classes, from FANCC has a prestige class that allows a wizard to advance his familiar, and even give him new abilities, but I believe it stunts his spellcasting ability, and gives the wizard better attack capabilities, so I am not sure if this is what you want.

Just thought I would drop a line.

 

[Technik4]

There are a couple ways I can think of balancing this. Lets keep in mind that you only want the Mage of Arcane Order to grant familiar advancement, which is in and of itself, a minor thing (even over 10 levels, it is worth maybe a feat's worth of power, imo).

And wuzzah, after glancing at the prc from Tome and Blood we see that it grants a "Research Breathrough" ability which gives a bonus metamagic feat. Therefore the easiest way is to eliminate both of these extra feats, and allow full familiar advancement.

For prcs which dont give straight bonus feats, a balancing maneuver may be to not allow free spells every level. Generally if there is 1 or 2 small bonuses you can eliminate, I think it is fair to allow continuation of familiar advancement.

Technik

 

[fba827]

What is it about Mage of the Arcane Order that you _DO_ want?

Using that, you could easily come up with another PrC.

Say, Wizard HD, BAB and save progression (or close). Give it +1 spell casting / level and +1 effective level for the purpose of the familiar. Then, you really can just add a couple things here or there to take the place of the would-be-attained bonus wizard feats (something to specialize the character in whatever direction you are hoping to grab from the Mage of the Arcane Order)...

Anyway, the basis of this option really depends on what it is about the MotAO that you do want (obviously, you can't have it all )

(as for simply taking the exp penalty -- I don't think that would equivalent in this case; but that's my own opinion).

 

[Moab]

Thanks for all the suggestions.

It's not so much that I want to take the Mage of the Arcane Order prestige class; I was only using that as an example.

I think I will probably alternate prestige class levels with wizard levels. No point changing things for such a simple matter.

Thanks again.

 

[XCorvis]

Feat:

Familiar Advancement [General]

Your familiar advances as your spellcasting abilities improve, regardless of the class taken.

Prerequisites: Must have a familiar and a caster level greater than the familiar's level.

Bonus: The familiar's level is considered equal to your caster level.

Normal: The familiar's level is based upon class levels that allow familiars.


I use the term "familiar level" because there's no good term for it, but I think you understand what I mean.

Also, have you checked the 3.5 thread for this? They may have fixed it there.

 

[Mordane76]

XCorvis: I really think your feat underestimates the power and usefulness of a familiar. Familiars of specific Intelligence and level can speak with master, and since many of these animals are Tiny or Diminuitive, they receive hefty bonuses to Move Silently and Hide. Once an animal possesses the intelligence of a commoner (Int 7-8) and speak with master, it effectively becomes an excellent spy and informant, and can carry some very damaging spells (pretty much any touch spell the master can cast), giving it a nice defensive measure or allowing it to provide an unexpected attack for its master.

I think that reducing this issue to a feat would be a very bad idea. Familiars become, quite simply, too useful at higher levels to allow this sort of bypass. The only thing that progresses about a familiar outside the spellcaster class level (and this I agree with as fair) is the familiar's hit points, else the familiar would simply become too useless if a spellcaster decided to multiclass to a PrC. About the only argument I might hear for stacking familiar benefits would be a Wizard/Sorcerer multiclass, but even here I'd be more inclined to all the character two familiars that advanced on the individual class levels (which is entirely within the bounds of the rules as written) than allowing him to stack his Sor and Wiz levels for the purpose of determining the powers of a single familiar.

 

[XCorvis]

I see your point. In some games, a familiar is quite potent. But in most, it's quite minor and ignored 95% of the time. If your GM thinks it's too powerful, don't use it.

 

[BVB]

Suggested adjustment to feat mentioned earlier: The familiar advancement is only effective for three levels. After that, you have to take the feat again if you want the familiar to continue to advance along with your other spellcasting classes.

So instead of a one-time bypass that some here would consider too cheap, you end up trading in feats all the way up the ladder.