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<blockquote data-quote="Ovarwa" data-source="post: 6826032" data-attributes="member: 75153"><p>Hi, I dislike substitution levels; I find them finicky. I also think that some systems have done "prestige class"-like things rather well over the years. D&D4 did a great job with this, I think. The base class never went away, a second class got layered on top of levels 11-20 and a third class over levels 21-30. Powerful characters naturally have prestige and naturally are less generic, right? Many combinations were infelicitous, and the system had other issues (overall I disliked D&D4), but this implementation of prestige classes was clever, workable and configurable without being twitchy. Always at levels 11 and 21, always in blocks of 10. But "prestige classes" traces its lineage as far back as Glorantha, though in a limited way. You're an advanced character? Choose your hero quest. Ars Magica and White Wolf accomplished this in yet a different way, with all the "prestige classes" coming into being from the start. You're not just a werewolf, but you have a clan (tribe? whatever), a phase of the moon, and something else that eludes me. Some of the games only had one or two tweaks of this kind. GURPS has its archetypes and lenses, which can be layered as desired. The great thing about the OP's idea, for me, is that a single magic item isn't all that finicky, and a prestige class that is as good as a legendary magic item substitutes for that item very nicely. On the one hand, the prestige class cannot be destroyed or taken away; on the other hand, it comes with requirements and obligations. So the idea can be implemented quite easily by writing some fluff text and either choosing a few related magic items that scale from uncommon to legendary (such as Blood of the Jotan, at first providing Str 19 and going up until the blood of the storm giant is unleashed at high level), or taking a legendary item and attenuating its power at low levels (such as taking Staff of the Archmage and doling out the powers over time), or just rolling your own (such as the Buoy Scouts (not a misspelling!)) Having an exclusivity requirement at the highest level also helps balance in a way that makes plain sense; a character might be able to be a Buoy Scout, a Knight of the Round Table and a Master of Magic all at once, but the demands of being a Scoutmaster preclude being a Sovereign or an Archmage. Anyway, Ken</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ovarwa, post: 6826032, member: 75153"] Hi, I dislike substitution levels; I find them finicky. I also think that some systems have done "prestige class"-like things rather well over the years. D&D4 did a great job with this, I think. The base class never went away, a second class got layered on top of levels 11-20 and a third class over levels 21-30. Powerful characters naturally have prestige and naturally are less generic, right? Many combinations were infelicitous, and the system had other issues (overall I disliked D&D4), but this implementation of prestige classes was clever, workable and configurable without being twitchy. Always at levels 11 and 21, always in blocks of 10. But "prestige classes" traces its lineage as far back as Glorantha, though in a limited way. You're an advanced character? Choose your hero quest. Ars Magica and White Wolf accomplished this in yet a different way, with all the "prestige classes" coming into being from the start. You're not just a werewolf, but you have a clan (tribe? whatever), a phase of the moon, and something else that eludes me. Some of the games only had one or two tweaks of this kind. GURPS has its archetypes and lenses, which can be layered as desired. The great thing about the OP's idea, for me, is that a single magic item isn't all that finicky, and a prestige class that is as good as a legendary magic item substitutes for that item very nicely. On the one hand, the prestige class cannot be destroyed or taken away; on the other hand, it comes with requirements and obligations. So the idea can be implemented quite easily by writing some fluff text and either choosing a few related magic items that scale from uncommon to legendary (such as Blood of the Jotan, at first providing Str 19 and going up until the blood of the storm giant is unleashed at high level), or taking a legendary item and attenuating its power at low levels (such as taking Staff of the Archmage and doling out the powers over time), or just rolling your own (such as the Buoy Scouts (not a misspelling!)) Having an exclusivity requirement at the highest level also helps balance in a way that makes plain sense; a character might be able to be a Buoy Scout, a Knight of the Round Table and a Master of Magic all at once, but the demands of being a Scoutmaster preclude being a Sovereign or an Archmage. Anyway, Ken [/QUOTE]
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