Prestige Crusader, Swordsage, & Warblade

[Fallenibilis]

Is it possible to take the base classes offered in the tome of battle and turn them into Prestige Class kinda like the Prestige Paladin, Ranger, and Bard.

If so how would you go about setting up the classes it's self and what the requirments for each would be?

I thought this might be a decent way to give classes like the Paladin, Monk, and Fighter some more power.

Fallenibilis

 

[Dandu]

Swordsage prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Flurry of Blows, Evasion, 8 ranks in Hide, Move Silently, Tumble.

Crusader prerequisites: Smite Evil, Divine Grace, 8 ranks in Diplomacy and Knowledge Religion

Warblade prerequisites: Power Attack, Combat Expertise, 8 ranks in Jump and Ride

Prestige classes grant the regular class features at an accelerated pace, which neatly avoids the Dead Levels problem.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Why not just multiclass? Why not take a few levels of Warblade after fighter, Crusader after Paladin, Swordsage after a few levels of Monk?

ToB p39 states that all non-manuver classes count as half a level towards accessing manuvers. So a Monk level 12 taking Swordsage at level 13 counts as 7 levels of Swordsage in determining what level of manuvers you can qualify for, so you this 13 level character can access up to 4th level manuvers with only one level of the class. Suddenly this monk has 6 Setting Sun manuvers and is running across the battle field throwing people.

These classes work as PrC's well enough just by themselves.

 

[Fallenibilis]

I was using this as a steping stone to offer this idea to my DM who doesn't seem to think that the tome of battle classes fit so much in his world (via flavor and power), however i know i really likes the Idea of the Prestige Paladin, Ranger, and Bard and he's looking for a soultion to the weakness of the melee classes so i thought maybe this might work.

Crusader's as elite soldiers of their church.
So like Paladin or a Fighter/Cleric maybe just a religous Fighter.'

Swordsage's as master of the ancient arts only taught to the rare worthy apprentice.
Monks are the easiest but i think martial Rogues and even some Rangers may fit well.

Warblade's as elite warriors only a select few warriors have the skill or determination to be selected and trained in this path.
For this i was Picturing that you at least had to have Weapon Specialization meaning at least 4 levels of fighter but after that it didn't matter much.

Falleniblis

 

[Fallenibilis]

Swordsage prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Flurry of Blows, Evasion, 8 ranks in Hide, Move Silently, Tumble.

Crusader prerequisites: Smite Evil, Divine Grace, 8 ranks in Diplomacy and Knowledge Religion

Warblade prerequisites: Power Attack, Combat Expertise, 8 ranks in Jump and Ride

Prestige classes grant the regular class features at an accelerated pace, which neatly avoids the Dead Levels problem.

Thanks very much Dandu, these suggestions will be very helpfull their abit limiting for my original purpose but they are a great starting point. So thanks for the contrabution.

Fallenibilis

 

[Rhun]

If you set these up to be prestige classes, you may have to modify the powers each class gets. For example, if you have to be 6th level to go into Warblade, and then you only get 1st level Warblade powers, those 1st level Warblade powers might be underpowered for a 7th level character. Just a quick thought, as I haven't spent any time actually looking into it.

 

[kitcik]

On a related question, I am currently playing a level 8 monk, planning to switch to warblade after level 12.

I know the first two questions are: why would you play a monk? why would you go to level 12? Please ignore those and take them as a given.

My question is: the DM and some members of the party stongly think a swordsage is more compatible with a monk. They suggest I go swordsage instead.

I realize that my Int (10) is suboptimal for a warblade, but the Int-based class features are kind of duds anyway. The reason I would pick warblade are:
- Full BAB
- d12 HD
- much faster re-readying of maneuvers during battle
- access to Iron Heart maneuvers

Am I crazy? Do the advantages of the swordsage (more maneuvers, access to more schools, better class abilities) make up for these drawbacks?

Since I have never actually played either class, I would be curious to know what people think.

 

[Rhun]

I realize that my Int (10) is suboptimal for a warblade, but the Int-based class features are kind of duds anyway. The reason I would pick warblade are:
- Full BAB
- d12 HD
- much faster re-readying of maneuvers during battle
- access to Iron Heart maneuvers

Am I crazy? Do the advantages of the swordsage (more maneuvers, access to more schools, better class abilities) make up for these drawbacks?

Since I have never actually played either class, I would be curious to know what people think.

I think it is probably a toss-up. I've played both classes, and like them equally. I personally think the swordsage goes with monk better than warblade does, but at 12th level that is probably a question of preference.

I'd suggest you make a build going both ways and decide which one comes out better.

 

[Roadie]

If you set these up to be prestige classes, you may have to modify the powers each class gets. For example, if you have to be 6th level to go into Warblade, and then you only get 1st level Warblade powers, those 1st level Warblade powers might be underpowered for a 7th level character. Just a quick thought, as I haven't spent any time actually looking into it.

Keep in mind that the maneuvers you get are based on initiator level, which for a fighter 6/warblade 1 (for example), would actually be 4 (6/2 + 1), and would have access to 2nd-level maneuvers.

More practically the character would still be at least somewhat limited by maneuver pre-reqs, though.

 

[Fallenibilis]

On a related question, I am currently playing a level 8 monk, planning to switch to warblade after level 12.

I know the first two questions are: why would you play a monk? why would you go to level 12? Please ignore those and take them as a given.

My question is: the DM and some members of the party stongly think a swordsage is more compatible with a monk. They suggest I go swordsage instead.

I realize that my Int (10) is suboptimal for a warblade, but the Int-based class features are kind of duds anyway. The reason I would pick warblade are:
- Full BAB
- d12 HD
- much faster re-readying of maneuvers during battle
- access to Iron Heart maneuvers

Am I crazy? Do the advantages of the swordsage (more maneuvers, access to more schools, better class abilities) make up for these drawbacks?

Since I have never actually played either class, I would be curious to know what people think.

I think it depends upon your roll in the party, while both have the capability of dishing out damage, the swordsage allows for more utility and versitility while the Warblade makes you a much better tank.

Fallenibilis