D&D 5E Preview of the Witch Class I am working on

[Guest 6801328]

I thought more about the "Sacrifice" thing. I'm not really seeing what this has to do with witches, unless you're basing it off some witch archetype that I'm not familiar with. I mean, it's kind of a nifty idea, it just doesn't say "witch" to me. More Warlock, really.

 

[Quickleaf]

Conceptually I like the drawback idea but I'd tone them down a lot. I.e., instead of "you can't be brought back to life" you might die after failing only two Death Saves instead of three. Yeah, yeah, I know you said "major sacrifice" but, as Quickleaf pointed out, D&D 5e characters just don't have these kinds of major flaws.

The one I thought of is "Repulsive: you suffer Disadvantage on all Charisma ability checks." (Which in a way conflicts the next thing I was going to say, which is that I think Witches should be yet-another-Charisma-class, instead of Intelligence.)

Then you need to tie each sacrifice to an ability that you gain.

I don't really like Origin of Powers. Or, at least, the origins you chose. They are too epic and grand for witches, at least my perception of them.

Overall, although I've long been wanting a Witch class, this doesn't really scratch my itch. Other than some fluff differences I don't really see how this is different from existing casters. Sure, "Origin of Powers" sounds unique, but what does it actually DO? You just get some new spells and a spell-like ability.

I'm the same. I think there's a lot of potential for an interesting Witch class – for example, I think Brian's take is pretty good, if a bit complex – but this doesn't feel like a "witch" to me.

While I don't believe in designing *only* to fill in gaps (i.e. we need another Intelligence-based spellcaster, instead of the many Wisdom- or Charisma-based casters), the way I think of a "witch" actually is more Intelligence-based than anything else. It's about knowing the correct rituals to Draw Down the Moon, knowing the secret paths through the Forest of Long Night, knowing the signs and seals of the Witch Queens, etc. While it's not the same kind of knowledge as a wizard – I imagine a "witch" being more about family secrets passed down through hedge traditions – it's still a form of knowing.

 

[Stalker0]

I will echo the notes on the sacrifice. I think you leave this one nebulous and personal to the player. And its a great hook....what did the player give up, a memory of a former lover, killed their brother, their own truename....etc etc.

But it doesn't need mechanics. It just a really cool plot point that some people will barely touch, and some people will write you a 20 page backstory on.


Right now there is not a good defining spell caster theme. You have a little bit of warlock spell casting mixed with regular casting...but nothing to unify it. The coven idea seems the neatest idea, but it needs mechanics to explain how the witch's spell casting is distinct from the other various classes.

 

[Slit518]

Alright, so what I am taking from the feedback is focus on the Coven mechanic, it has potential. But make sure it's unique and stands out while making it interesting.

Change the sacrifice mechanic, either make it something without draw back or less draw back.

Let us look at all the main spell casters and see how they handle their spells:

Warlock - spell slots that recharge on a short rest and up-scaled to a max of 5th level spells, with also at-will Invocations and a 1/day 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th level spells at the correct levels.

Wizard - writes spells into a book, memorizes which ones they want to use ahead of time.

Bard/Sorcerer - knows a certain number of spells, casts them from their slots.

Cleric/Druid - have the option of choosing all spells from spell list ahead of time.

I tried to do a unique thing by mixing the Warlock option with the Bard/Sorcerer option. Giving them spell slots which can be used for their Origin/Coven spells, spells gifted to them. And using regular spell slots for the spells they learn on their own. Though both are limited (not to the max of either type), there is a lot of casting flexibility. That is also why I added a sacrifice for the Witch, just so her power wouldn't seem out of control.

One thing I will remove are the extra drawbacks on the Deafened sacrifice. It makes no sense for somebody who could hear their whole life not to be able to speak correctly causing their words to malfunction later after being deaf. They already know what the words feel like.

I may add a couple more, less "harsh" sacrifices the Witch can use for power, such as "Loveless," never able to find love, and "Aged," where the Witch is aged to a venerable age. So that way a player can choose what Sacrifice is appropriate for their power.

I feel most witches are under the "Soulless" sacrifice, giving up their soul for power. It has no cosmetic or mechanical effect aside from not being able to be resurrected. But that makes sense because you have given your soul to a higher power. And like I said, at 9th level the Witch receives an ability that helps them with their Sacrifice.

For example, the paralyzed Witch can Levitate once she hits 9th level. She has an hour usage of it and can spread it out any way she wishes throughout the day. She regains all spent usage of it at the end of a Long Rest. She also doesn't need to Concentrate on this Levitation, as it's an ability granted to her from the higher power for being a good servant.

Quickleaf, I agree with you on why the Witch is an Intelligence based caster. Those were my thoughts as I chose to set-it-up. Though, I could understand a Charisma based caster for the Witch as well, but I feel D&D has too many Charisma based casters.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Another way of thinking about the Sacrifice is to make it an ability: you invoke your sacrifice and pay some (temporary) penalty in exchange for a (temporary) benefit. Maybe until the next short/long rest?

And an idea for you about covens/sources of power/subclasses: if the Coven is the sub-class, each Coven could be "family" (in the metaphorical sense) of a specific entity. Sort of an arch-Witch. E.g. Queen of the Night, Queen of Frost, the Matron, etc. (They wouldn't all have to be female or queens...that's just where my brain goes with Witches.)

 

[Quickleaf]

Alright, so what I am taking from the feedback is focus on the Coven mechanic, it has potential. But make sure it's unique and stands out while making it interesting.

Change the sacrifice mechanic, either make it something without draw back or less draw back.

Let us look at all the main spell casters and see how they handle their spells:

Warlock - spell slots that recharge on a short rest and up-scaled to a max of 5th level spells, with also at-will Invocations and a 1/day 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th level spells at the correct levels.

Wizard - writes spells into a book, memorizes which ones they want to use ahead of time.

Bard/Sorcerer - knows a certain number of spells, casts them from their slots.

Cleric/Druid - have the option of choosing all spells from spell list ahead of time.

I tried to do a unique thing by mixing the Warlock option with the Bard/Sorcerer option. Giving them spell slots which can be used for their Origin/Coven spells, spells gifted to them. And using regular spell slots for the spells they learn on their own. Though both are limited (not to the max of either type), there is a lot of casting flexibility. That is also why I added a sacrifice for the Witch, just so her power wouldn't seem out of control.

One thing I will remove are the extra drawbacks on the Deafened sacrifice. It makes no sense for somebody who could hear their whole life not to be able to speak correctly causing their words to malfunction later after being deaf. They already know what the words feel like.

I may add a couple more, less "harsh" sacrifices the Witch can use for power, such as "Loveless," never able to find love, and "Aged," where the Witch is aged to a venerable age. So that way a player can choose what Sacrifice is appropriate for their power.

I feel most witches are under the "Soulless" sacrifice, giving up their soul for power. It has no cosmetic or mechanical effect aside from not being able to be resurrected. But that makes sense because you have given your soul to a higher power. And like I said, at 9th level the Witch receives an ability that helps them with their Sacrifice.

For example, the paralyzed Witch can Levitate once she hits 9th level. She has an hour usage of it and can spread it out any way she wishes throughout the day. She regains all spent usage of it at the end of a Long Rest. She also doesn't need to Concentrate on this Levitation, as it's an ability granted to her from the higher power for being a good servant.

Quickleaf, I agree with you on why the Witch is an Intelligence based caster. Those were my thoughts as I chose to set-it-up. Though, I could understand a Charisma based caster for the Witch as well, but I feel D&D has too many Charisma based casters.

I get that it's fun to tinker with mechanics. Hey, I enjoy it too.

But you need a clear identity of what a witch *is*. And you need to articulate that here if you're hoping for any kind of meaningful feedback.

You cannot design a class starting from the mechanics. It does not work. You need to have some kind of story/narrative. That's what you hang your design upon.

You seem to have an idea in your head of what a witch is – for example, you say: I feel most witches are under the "Soulless" sacrifice, giving up their soul for power – but you haven't come out and clearly articulated what a witch's identity is. You're being exceedingly opaque. You need to communicate what a witch is to you. Don't assume we "just know." OK, why do you think that witches gain magic by selling their souls? What literary/film/historical sources are you drawing upon for that definition? And how is it different from a warlock?

 

[DeanP]

I've been thinking about your post and thread. I began by pondering the existing main spellcasting classes. The wizard draws his magical ability through rigorous study. The sorcerer is born with magic in the blood. The cleric draws power from her faith, the warlock makes a pact with something else. The druid draws her power from nature or maybe nature gods. So, where does the witch draw her power? Is it arcane? or is it divine magic? I'd abandon the idea of pacts; that's the territory of the warlock. If you suggesting its through sacrifice, that sounds like blood magic, and somebody produced a supplement on that, and that uses HD as a source of the mechanic. I pondered two sources that might help give form to the class. The celestial bodies or through ley energy within the earth; both which led me to think about how the witch channels these energies? Naturally some tropes came to mind; through ritual, through tattoos, through crystals and poultices. I think this suggests the witch is some sort of channeler of the magic woven into the prime material plane. Maybe other types of witches draw their powers from either the shadowfell or the feywild, but rather than receiving their power through an entity, channel the essence of magic from those planes.

Maybe there's some sort of effect that people do not like because of the channeled energy? A roleplaying effect rather than a mechanical effect? And these effects make people distrust witches or fear them; giving witches the type of mystique you're looking for?

 

[Slit518]

I've been thinking about your post and thread. I began by pondering the existing main spellcasting classes. The wizard draws his magical ability through rigorous study. The sorcerer is born with magic in the blood. The cleric draws power from her faith, the warlock makes a pact with something else. The druid draws her power from nature or maybe nature gods. So, where does the witch draw her power? Is it arcane? or is it divine magic? I'd abandon the idea of pacts; that's the territory of the warlock. If you suggesting its through sacrifice, that sounds like blood magic, and somebody produced a supplement on that, and that uses HD as a source of the mechanic. I pondered two sources that might help give form to the class. The celestial bodies or through ley energy within the earth; both which led me to think about how the witch channels these energies? Naturally some tropes came to mind; through ritual, through tattoos, through crystals and poultices. I think this suggests the witch is some sort of channeler of the magic woven into the prime material plane. Maybe other types of witches draw their powers from either the shadowfell or the feywild, but rather than receiving their power through an entity, channel the essence of magic from those planes.

Maybe there's some sort of effect that people do not like because of the channeled energy? A roleplaying effect rather than a mechanical effect? And these effects make people distrust witches or fear them; giving witches the type of mystique you're looking for?

That does sound interesting.

But I mean a Cleric and Druid basically draw their magic from similar sources, right? Gods of some sort? The old versus the new?

So wouldn't Warlock and Witch be similar?

And it was Matthew Mercer who created a Blood Magic supplement on the DM's Guild. First time I saw a Blood Mage was in Dragon Age (not saying they didn't exist before then, it was just my first experience with one).

I feel like if:
Cleric <--> Druid
then
Warlock <--> Witch

I also wanted to the Witch to be more universal and not setting tied. Shadowfell? Feywild? It's possible, it's a neat idea, but does it seem as universal? Like if I had my own homebrew and those don't exist, surely I could change their names to something similar? But wouldn't Heavens/Hells/Oceans/Cosmos be a more broader sense that could fit into any homebrew? All they have to do is change the name to fit their custom setting.

I appreciate the feedback. It definitely gave me somethings to think about.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

But I mean a Cleric and Druid basically draw their magic from similar sources, right? Gods of some sort? The old versus the new?

So wouldn't Warlock and Witch be similar?

Sure, I guess, but that's kind of the problem. The Druid is already a class which shouldn't exist, under the 5E class structure.

The only reason that the Druid class exists is because, back in the AD&D times, the Priest class was an extremely specific thing which definitely only worshipped a vaguely-pseudo-Christian god of Sun and Light. The Druid was introduced as a variant of that, which worshipped plants and nature stuff instead, so it had some different spells and could change into animals instead of turning undead. If AD&D had been written with the 5E class/subclass structure in mind, then Druid would be the name of the nature domain subclass under Cleric.

If the Cleric was still its own very specific thing, such that the Druid deserved its own class, then you could make a strong case for the Witch being separate from the Warlock. Maybe the Warlock only makes a pact with a fiend, so you could have a Witch class that only makes a pact with a fey, and that would be fine. As it stands, it's hard to see what the Witch is supposed to be doing, such that the Warlock would be insufficient.

 

[Slit518]

Sure, I guess, but that's kind of the problem. The Druid is already a class which shouldn't exist, under the 5E class structure.

The only reason that the Druid class exists is because, back in the AD&D times, the Priest class was an extremely specific thing which definitely only worshipped a vaguely-pseudo-Christian god of Sun and Light. The Druid was introduced as a variant of that, which worshipped plants and nature stuff instead, so it had some different spells and could change into animals instead of turning undead. If AD&D had been written with the 5E class/subclass structure in mind, then Druid would be the name of the nature domain subclass under Cleric.

If the Cleric was still its own very specific thing, such that the Druid deserved its own class, then you could make a strong case for the Witch being separate from the Warlock. Maybe the Warlock only makes a pact with a fiend, so you could have a Witch class that only makes a pact with a fey, and that would be fine. As it stands, it's hard to see what the Witch is supposed to be doing, such that the Warlock would be insufficient.

Oh yeah, there are many good rolls other casting classes can fill to fit the idea of a Witch.