D&D 5E Princes of the Apocalypse or Hoard of the Dragon Queen

[JenniferRPG]

Hello, this is my first post here -- or any RPG web site for that matter.

I played Dungeons and Dragons (Basic) a few times when I was a child and really enjoyed the experience. I ended up finally getting my own player's handbook and dungeon masters guide at Target with intentions of possibly running my own games. I got these on clearance at giveaway prices (due to them having demons / devils on them etc, lol).

Anyways they were the Advanced Dungeons & Dragons manuals and it was too much for me at the the time (I was around 12 then), and I ended up giving up the idea -- but I enjoyed reading them, the best I could anyways.

But I've always been into computers (since the Commodore 64) and always enjoyed playing fantasy "rpg" games on them, including the baldur's gate and Icewind Dale titles.. along with Everquest and then WoW. (I don't play MMORPG games anymore -- looking for some roleplaying and dynamic environments a computer can't begin to offer.)

Now I'm at the point again in my life (32 years later) having the idea I might run my own games, starting with my nephew (I guess we could both play 2 characters for the party -- a lot of work in addition to DM'ing I know especially the roleplaying lol).

We are going to start with Phandelver. But after that we will want to get another module.

Should that module be Hoard of the Dragon Queen (and then subsequently Rise of Tiamat), or should we just skip over them and go right to Princes of the Apocalypse?

I read that Hoard wasn't that great of an Adventure (that is was full of errata and was boring) -- but of course what I read could of been really biased.

I have read great things about Princes, especially that it is TOEE--like. (Read great things about TOEE including someone's conversion notes from AD&D 1E to 5e).

So after Phandelver, should we start with Hoard, Princes or a converted TOEE? Or perhaps something else? Maybe something free?

Thanks!

Jennifer

 

[eryndel]

Hi Jennifer, welcome to EN world. Here's some XP I'd have to say toy around with Phandelver and see how that plays. There's a lot of great content there and many hours of game time. Although Hoard has it's fair share of detractors, it's not really that bad of an adventure and fills a very different niche than Princes.

Hoard (and Rise of Tiamat) is a relatively linear, epic adversary adventure path. If I were to run this after Phandelver, I'd continue to run Chapter 1 as being an attack on Phandalin instead of Greenest, perhaps with some scaling of the opponents, and then lead them directly into Chapter 5 (if I remember correctly) and the Mere of Dead Men.

Princes build more organically as a follow-on to Lost Mines, is much more free form, and less epic in scope. There's a lot going on that the characters may get involved in.

I've run most of Lost Mines for my kids (ages 6, 10, and 14). We've taken a little bit of a hiatus, and I'm planning on hand-waving the finale to it and move on to Princes. That said, I'm torn. A "railroad" is actually a better adventure to run for some kids who want to follow along with what they "should be doing". I see that some in my youngest daughter. She may have some difficulty adjusting to the more sandboxy adventure that is Princes.

Chapter 2 of Lost Mines offers a lot of freedom as well. I'd see how your nephew (and any other players) handle it. If they seem to enjoy that level of freedom, run with Princes. If they spend their time trying to figure out what they "should be doing," Hoard might be a good next step.

Again welcome to ENWorld.

Werner Hager

 

[Inchoroi]

Run Princes of the Apocalypse, definitely. I"m running it now, and its awesome, and it works very well just after Lost Mines of Phandelver.

 

[Parmandur]

Both are fine, but Princes gives advise for bringing characters over from Lost Mines.

 

[I'm A Banana]

Hello, this is my first post here -- or any RPG web site for that matter.

So after Phandelver, should we start with Hoard, Princes or a converted TOEE? Or perhaps something else? Maybe something free?

If I was in your boat, I'd probably go with Princes. Hoard is fine, but it shows that it was first out the door. Princes seems solid. That should keep you busy for a few months!

 

[JenniferRPG]

Thanks for the replies.

I have another question, regarding Phandelver--our first adventure. Since it is going to be just the two of us at the start, should we just run two characters (instead of the two each I was thinking of)? -- four seems kind of overwhelming.

Perhaps I could let him play fighter, and I would play a wizard, both using the healing surge option? Then I'd just cut the number of monsters in half and/or cut the large monster's hit points in half?

Are we going to need a thief for Phandelver? If so, I guess in those cases I could create an NPC thief that is wandering the dungeon and offering his (or her services) at a price.
Thanks!

 

[Gilladian]

If you are going to play a PC with your nephew, then definitely play a cleric or wizard-with-extra-healing-potions. How old is he? If he's under 12, then yes, the basic fighter is probably his best option. Does he have a friend he could invite along to play? Or would one of his parents join in? Roleplaying is so much more fun with two players at the minimum. Phandelver is a splendid starting module, and you'll have loads of fun, and you can easily trim it for 2 PCs. Watch out, in the very first goblin caves adventure - that bugbear can EASILY kill a PC with one blow. A rogue is NICE to have, especially in the Tressendar manor adventure, but not absolutely necessary. Just make sure your nephew learns the value of active searching, and you all should be okay.

 

[Sarasani]

I would recommend staying away from running a PC and being DM at the same time. Instead, make some ally NPC's that will tag along with your player now and then, but make sure the spotlight stays on the real PC. Another good idea is to have you friend play two characters.

One on one sessions (one DM and one player) can be really interesting. They tend to have a much better flow and a more rapid progression. As the DM, you have only the wishes and preferences of one player to cater to so you can pretty much run a perfect game for your friend (ie the right amount of roleplay, combat, story, etc). In that light I would seriously consider to create your own campaign for your friend. Ask him what kind of adventures he would like to play and just create them. Of course, there's loads of material in both Hoard and Princes you can 'steal'.

 

[cmad1977]

I'm running HotDQ right now and my group and I are really enjoying it.

That said... I would probably go with Princes to avoid some of the errata issues Hoard has.
For us so far Hoard has been great but the impression i get from Princes is that it is a little tighter in presentation and utility.

THAT said... If you/your players want a more defined path/goal maybe Hoard will be up your alley.

 

[eryndel]

I'd disagree slightly with [MENTION=2093]Gilladian[/MENTION], I would recommend your nephew should look through either the pregens (or the PHB if you have it) and see what sounds cool. There are a lot of options through many of the classes that are relatively easy to pick up. As an example, in the LMoP game we've run, my youngest daughter (6) had been playing a Moon Druid, my middle daughter (10) is playing a beastmaster ranger, and my son (14), the consummate optimizer, started with the pregen wizard, moved to a gnome wizard, and then settled (for the last couple sessions at any rate) to a variant human bard. For the 6 and 10 year old, there haven't been much complaint in not understanding how to play the character and they've been having a ton of fun.

As for running the game, each of you running two characters might end up being distracting. Are there other friends of his who might want to play? Other than that, I'd recommend one character each (and you play a healer if he doesn't want to) and to be gentle. Level 1 and 2 is fragile, and we almost lost everyone in the very first encounter with goblins (along the road). I would encourage talking your way out where possible, especially with some of the goblins or, later, the redbrands. There was a lot of playing the goblins off one another in Ch. 1, and the hobgoblins vs. the bandits in Ch. 2.

Alternatively, you could start at level 3. The downside is that there's more powers to become familiar with up front, but you'd see an increase in survivability. To compensate, you could adjust the xp awards (or just apply a level up) somewhere in Ch. 3 while they are exploring around Phandalin, and then another level up (to 5) as they enter Wave Echo Mine. I would think that would at least be a less complicated option then each of you with two characters.