Problem: Is Ghostform over-powered?

[Fimmtiu]

The use of the ghostform spell from Tome & Blood (Sor/Wiz 5, makes caster incorporeal for 1 minute/level) in the campaign I'm playing in right now has brought up some questions about how well it's balanced compared to other 5th-level spells.

So we had an unexpectedly tense session tonight. Our 12th-level party of three characters (slayer, brb/wiz, cleric) was exploring the ruins of an illithid lair, and stumbled upon a pool in which a neolithid (Psi Handbook) was trapped. The surprise round nearly resulted in a TPK.

We ran like frightened schoolgirls, of course, and settled on a cunning plan. After researching everything about neolithids we could, we teleported back there and took it on again, bolstered with ghostform on myself and spell immunity to charm monster and suggestion. The other two players stayed back and hit it with ranged attacks, while I flew up to it incorporeally and started bombarding it with lightning bolts (Reflex is its weak save, after all). Since I was incorporeal, it couldn't hit me or breathe acid on me*; since it had been raised in this pool that it was trapped in, it didn't know any other locations to teleport to. (How it came to be there is a longer story.)

Basically, thanks to ghostform and my Greater Spell Penetration, we diced a creature 3 CRs above the party level with no danger whatsoever to ourselves. Thanks to this incident, our DM, who is a level-headed, common-sense sort of fellow, is pondering whether ghostform is perhaps too powerful for a level 5 spell. After all, it makes you immune to everything but magical weapons, spells, and (Su) and (Sp) abilities, and almost all your spells can still affect material targets. I could argue it either way, really -- without the spell immunity, we'd have been toast anyhow, and the beast was stuck in a bad defensive situation.

What do you all think? Anyone have any strong gut feelings? Anyone had experience with it in their campaign? My DM and I appreciate any advice. Thanks!



* We all agreed that even though breath weapons are supernatural in origin, it didn't really make any sense that producing a cloud of acid could affect an incorporeal creature whose body was on the Ethereal Plane.

 

[hong]

Yes, ghostform is overpowered.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

* We all agreed that even though breath weapons are supernatural in origin, it didn't really make any sense that producing a cloud of acid could affect an incorporeal creature whose body was on the Ethereal Plane.

I don't have my copy of Ghostform with me, though it didn't seem overpowered to me. Strong, yes. But so are many other spells.

You might want to note, though, that incorporeal does not mean that your body is on the Ethereal Plane. The line between a wraith and a ghost is a fine one, but it does exist.

 

[Darklone]

Splatbook spell.

 

[Naar]

Also, ghostform is absolutely useless off the Prime Material. Otherwise, yes, it is an extremely useful spell.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: Re: Problem: Is Ghostform over-powered?

You might want to note, though, that incorporeal does not mean that your body is on the Ethereal Plane.

In the case of Ghostform, it does; you are treated like a manifesting ghost, in that you exist on the Ethereal and are incorporeal on the Prime at the same time.

-Hyp.

 

[Geoff Watson]

Yes, Ghostform is overpowered.

The Neothelid should still have been a dangerous foe.

It could, but with a 50% miss chance for an incorporal target:
Breath weapon.
True telekinesis on you.
True telekinesis one of your allies magical weapons and hit you with it.
Mind blast.

Geoff.

 

[Soldarin]

If you hadn't houseruled against acid attacks, the spell would have been fine.

 

[Magic Rub]

That thing should have given you a way better fight then it sounds like you had. Even in ghost form (which IMO is strong but not "overpowered"). The Neothelid had only a 50% misschance on you, The breath weapon should have been able to hit you. The Neothelid psionic powers, & psionic attacks would have been able to hit you. The only benefit you had by using ghost form was in that it couldn't grapple or swallow you.

Ghost form is a cool spell, but it no more disgusting then say... Dominate Person, Hold Monster, Magic Jar, Mind Fog, Mirage Arcana, Persistant Image, Wall of Force... ect, ect, ect. Ghost form has plenty of loop holes a DM can exploit. My players (& myself included) early on thought it was disgusting, now things are different. It's far from the uber buff spell we thought it once was, & none of us depend on it for a 'sure win' anymore.

 

[Velenne]

There was significant discussion on this topic some time ago. Perhaps someone with a search privelege could find the thread.

Ultimately, my DM decided to switch the levels of Ghostform and Ethereal Jaunt. The logic was that EJ was a poor-man's Ghostform, but the latter was two levels lower. Sure EJ has its benefits, but not as a defensive combat spell since you can't effect the Material Plane while you're 'jaunting'.

As a result, my poor Sorceror (who rather enjoyed getting his CHA bonus to his AC, excellent movement, defeating blindsight, immunity to normal weapons and breath weapons, and 50% immunity to all spells from a material source) will be waiting a long time to get it back.