Problems as a dm/players won't commit to story

[Pbartender]

Something I've found that helps out in these situations is to give the party a patron. Someone to give them missions and pay them rewards. That'll give you an in-game means to focus them in a particular direction... Even if it's just taking mercenary missions from the River Rats thieves' guild.

The missions don't even necessarily have to have anything to do with the overall campaign plot. They just give the PCs some direction and purpose. In the meantime, you set the stage with hints and NPC introductions for the greater conflict that you can bring to the fore once they get to Paragon levels. Perhaps the organizations they they work for or against are, in a way, the unknowing (or in some cases knowing) agents of the gods' conflict in the mortal world.

In this way, you can slowly and subtly drawn them into the conflict with the gods without chucking them headfirst into it at first level. Right now, they are pawns of the pawns of gods. By paragons levels, they should be powerful enough to graduate up to being pawns of the gods, and at epic levels they begin to rival the gods themselves.

 

[Keenberg]

1. What do the characters want? The players have to do this, the DM can't. Let them write their own Quest or three; the DM should have veto power. Conflicting Quests create conflicted characters.

2. What stands in the way? The DM writes this. The opposition should be able to give them a fair challenge and be reasonable - no black-hatted puppy-kicking villains. Monsters can be evil, sure, but the NPCs should be reasonable.

The interaction of the PCs driving towards their goals with the NPCs who are trying to stop them makes your story.

Very good points. My players have been having a tough time writing up backstories, but since we're 4 levels in now, maybe they have seen enough of the world to write up what they want.

Each island explores the idea of the gods at war in different ways. e.g. Sehanine is fighting Erathis: Love in conflict with Civilization. That writes itself. The key with these conflicts is that both sides should be reasonable. Create some NPCs who represent each side and NPCs who are caught in the crossfire. If you want to introduce monsters, make them representative of the conflict; for the Sehanine - Erathis fight, a succubus is perfect (representing a corruption of law and love).

Cool idea. I've been taking some liberty with the races... for example the Goliaths are less nomadic, and are enemies of the Githzerai. They live on separate islands and are at war. Fits in to this idea of islands as godly conflict quite well...

 

[Keenberg]

There is a big potential problem here. What happens if one, or both, of the characters who have had visions die? Basically, either the players have to bring in replacements for them who recieve similar visions, or some NPCs somewhere else get them and the surviving crew are left hanging. So if they do decide to get 'with' the plot, be sure you know what will happen if/when the 'important' characters get snuffed.

Luckily the story is organic, it can change as things develop. A charcter dies? Well, the Diety who chose them will suffer in some way because his/her scion fell. I'll be sure to communicate this, though.

By the way, I've been giving out a lot of xp here because my group and I have alot invested in this campaign. It is important to me to see it cometo somesort of fruition!

 

[ExploderWizard]

Hump or death.

Humperdink?

 

[ST]

Dude, at level four you're just getting started. Relax and don't worry about trying to impose an overarching plot on them.

War of the Gods in an island setting? Hundreds of ways to bring in the elements you want to work with, without having to be heavy-handed or directly tell them what to do and where to go.

Off the top of my head, if the gods are trying to actively get involved in human affairs, then there's going to be massive bribery going on. I mean, yeah, a devoted follower who's "doing the right thing" is great, but in a lawless tropical archipelago, I'd bet on the gods who choose "greed" as a motivator. They've got a way larger audience.

Long-lost sunken temples, sought after by a dozen mercenary groups for the power inside. Deals from (lawful neutral?) deities that set you on the path to your "true destiny" of untold wealth, as long as you adhere to the contract. Jungle feral halfling tribes worshipping dark unnamed gods. Hooded cultists at war on the rooftops of a corrupt port city. This stuff's gonna be cake, relax.

For some of these, you could snatch ideas from Dragon or a module, make whatever the magical/supernatural "deal" in the dungeon is be about one of the gods, and voila, you can provide a couple of different hooks of places they could raid, without burning up much prep time.

If you throw out some rumors and have a couple of factions competing with the PCs' gig, the players will pick something cool. From there, you can work in the gods' upcoming war, or battle for preeminence or whatnot, into things as simply part of the background of "Why is this particular area such a hotbed?" Bring in, say, a rivalry between two gods at a time, have it open up as the PCs discover more involvement, let them put the pieces together. Then it's not like you're having to worry about "How do I introduce this gods'war thing", it's more like "The war's been going on in the background, and the PCs are someday going to be major players in the region, so they're going to have to choose sides eventually."

Personally, I wouldn't push the whole Chosen Scion of Whatever deal, your mileage may vary, but I find that being the champion/pawn/whatever of a diety is a lot more interesting for the player if it's a role they've intentionally chosen. Well then, what if someone works with a god but then doublecrosses them? Hey, maybe it's a blood vendetta, maybe it's just business, but changing alliances and the PC party being a big ole wild card in the middle of some chaos sounds like good gaming fun to me. But I'm telling you, in terms of plain human nature, the players are going to be "meh" about it if it's imposed on them, but pretty damn interested if their characters are making these allegiances for power or something else they want.

Then in some future tier if they're still feeling the pirate theme, hell, go with it. There are ships that sail planes other than ours, after all, maybe some day they'll end up privateers (or freebooters) on the Astral Sea.

 

[Psychotic Jim]

First of all, I wanted to say that it's good if you're being a bit flexible here and letting your game develop organically despite some of the stumbles you've come across. From your first post things seem a little bit confusing, so it might help us provide ideas for you if you post some more explicit details of your follow-up inquiry on what the Players/PCs want. We have some basic class/race details but not much on the individual PCs/players themselves.

Judging just from your initial post, it seems like there's a mismatch between what hooks you're giving them and what kinds of adventures they expect. It seems like you have some pretty epic plans for them coming out of the box, whereas they seem to be at this point just interested in doing lower-grade pirate operations that benefits just themselves primarily. Exploration also seems to be a recurring theme here- the wonders of discovery can make for interesting adventure opportunities. If you can clarify things with them about what they expect for the present and future, that might help.

Right now, I’m curious about those dreams. Why are the gods calling upon the PCs now? And how have the PCs/players responded. If they have not been positive, this may be an element of the mismatch I was talking about earlier.

Regarding the general non-committal nature of the PCs, there seems to be one or two possible exceptions to that generalization in your overall narrative of what has occurred. From what I gathered (please correct me if I’m wrong), the party either kills or betrays many of the NPCs it comes across. The mentioned exception is a family of Halflings (and the gnome Buttons) whom you mentioned the party took in. Was Buttons an NPC or a PC? Also, what happened to the halfling family? If they are still around and in the good graces of the party, perhaps this might give you a clue in providing hooks and NPC relationships for your groups.

The second exception is the dead witch’s treasure side quest. It seems like your players successfully bit that hook. Did that involve any positive interactions with NPCs? What made them bite that hook and successfully complete it?

 

[Blackbrrd]

It seems you are good at improvising and having the players turn pirate isn't really a problem as I see it.

You wanted the players to get their own base? Fine, have them outlawed and hunted so that they need to capture an island to use as a base. A nice cosy pirate stronghold.

One easy step, and your players are right back on the tracks you want them to be.

 

[Keenberg]

It seems you are good at improvising and having the players turn pirate isn't really a problem as I see it.

You wanted the players to get their own base? Fine, have them outlawed and hunted so that they need to capture an island to use as a base. A nice cosy pirate stronghold.

One easy step, and your players are right back on the tracks you want them to be.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I wanted them to have their own base. It's not a problem in my eyes, but what I want them to do is start working for the greater good (or bad) instead of just trying to benefit themselves. But that can probably wait until paragon.

Trying to start on the shift right now.

 

[Keenberg]

First of all, I wanted to say that it's good if you're being a bit flexible here and letting your game develop organically despite some of the stumbles you've come across. From your first post things seem a little bit confusing, so it might help us provide ideas for you if you post some more explicit details of your follow-up inquiry on what the Players/PCs want. We have some basic class/race details but not much on the individual PCs/players themselves.


Judging just from your initial post, it seems like there's a mismatch between what hooks you're giving them and what kinds of adventures they expect. It seems like you have some pretty epic plans for them coming out of the box, whereas they seem to be at this point just interested in doing lower-grade pirate operations that benefits just themselves primarily. Exploration also seems to be a recurring theme here- the wonders of discovery can make for interesting adventure opportunities. If you can clarify things with them about what they expect for the present and future, that might help.

I'll provide their desires after next sesh (thurs night). Perhaps I am rushing the epicness a little bit. I wouldn't want it to feel contrived or trite, so I'll beslowing things down and building toward more climactic events withmy inteded story.

Right now, I’m curious about those dreams. Why are the gods calling upon the PCs now? And how have the PCs/players responded. If they have not been positive, this may be an element of the mismatch I was talking about earlier.

The players have taken interest in the dreams which I am happyabout, although it doesn't transfer to character motivation, for the most part. The gods are calling on them right now because they already know the PCs' potentials. The gods are acting in the long term rather than knocking at the doors of well known heroes the day before. Who knows how devoted they would be.

Regarding the general non-committal nature of the PCs, there seems to be one or two possible exceptions to that generalization in your overall narrative of what has occurred. From what I gathered (please correct me if I’m wrong), the party either kills or betrays many of the NPCs it comes across. The mentioned exception is a family of Halflings (and the gnome Buttons) whom you mentioned the party took in. Was Buttons an NPC or a PC? Also, what happened to the halfling family? If they are still around and in the good graces of the party, perhaps this might give you a clue in providing hooks and NPC relationships for your groups.

The second exception is the dead witch’s treasure side quest. It seems like your players successfully bit that hook. Did that involve any positive interactions with NPCs? What made them bite that hook and successfully complete it?

Yes, the party uses the NPCs to whatever advantage they'll provide and then either turns on them or kills them. The halfling family was an exception because Buttons is a PC. The halfling family seems tobe a viable story hook.
The party actually takes almost any quest I throw at them. The only thing they've shyed away from was a beholder living in a volcano.
The problem I was having is tying these one-shot-adventures in to the intended story, but that shouldn't be a problem anylonger. I really like the idea of using different islands or lands to show the conflicting forces of the gods.

 

[C_M2008]

Let them have fun with there free-booting but inlay some meta-plot in the background/on-top.

They might raid a ship and find an image of a diety being desecrated by the ships chaplain (or doing something else obviously against the core beliefs of his diety) .

Have divine powered PCs have fluxuating power levels, throw some bonus dice at them on some daily powers, drastically reduce effectiveness other times to show the swings in the diety's struggles.

As the war rages, the seas get ever more rough as the Sea god(s?) attempt to exercise their powers, perhaps culminating in a battle with a legendary creature(kraken perhaps?).

Looting ancient temples or other holy sites results in minor curses or divine boons.


A few "random" occurances and the larger picture should begin to reveal itself to the players.

If they still dont bite after your best efforts, resolve the diety thing in the background and let them play what they want to play.