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<blockquote data-quote="Justice and Rule" data-source="post: 9055431" data-attributes="member: 6778210">It's not. Like, how much of PF1/3E is silo'd off by massive feat chains? You can still build all those things in PF2 pretty easily, along with a bunch of other options.I suppose that's kind of where the brokenness of the system starts to come in? I dunno, I think there is room beyond your main stats to do things with, especially given the boosts and equipment you can get over time. My limited experience with 3E was not &quot;boundless opportunity&quot; but rather &quot;These are the builds that work.&quot; Maybe I just never invested the skill mastery needed to find that stuff, but I think that's part of the problem with the system.My experience with point-buy skill systems in d20 was... meh, to say the least. Like you talk about &quot;where you choose to invest&quot; but largely speaking you put stuff into the same things because there's less value in putting a skill-point or two into one area and never go back to it. 5E was on the right track with proficiency, I just think PF2 gets it better. Even 4E, in my opinion, had a good idea with doing the half-proficiency for all other skills (or maybe that was SWSE? I can't remember, it's been a while). But ultimately not having to spend for skills every level is an improvement.But there are plenty of different feats and plenty of different build options. That's the point. You're talking about stats and plusses, and I just don't see those as the same thing. You can talk about &quot;optimal choices&quot;, but I don't think that really plays into what PF2 is unless you can start naming them. At the end, you aren't really harmed by not taking certain things because what balances your math is already baked into the system; what changes is how you use those numbers.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Justice and Rule, post: 9055431, member: 6778210"] It's not. Like, how much of PF1/3E is silo'd off by massive feat chains? You can still build all those things in PF2 pretty easily, along with a bunch of other options. I suppose that's kind of where the brokenness of the system starts to come in? I dunno, I think there is room beyond your main stats to do things with, especially given the boosts and equipment you can get over time. My limited experience with 3E was not "boundless opportunity" but rather "These are the builds that work." Maybe I just never invested the skill mastery needed to find that stuff, but I think that's part of the problem with the system. My experience with point-buy skill systems in d20 was... meh, to say the least. Like you talk about "where you choose to invest" but largely speaking you put stuff into the same things because there's less value in putting a skill-point or two into one area and never go back to it. 5E was on the right track with proficiency, I just think PF2 gets it better. Even 4E, in my opinion, had a good idea with doing the half-proficiency for all other skills (or maybe that was SWSE? I can't remember, it's been a while). But ultimately not having to spend for skills every level is an improvement. But there are plenty of different feats and plenty of different build options. That's the point. You're talking about stats and plusses, and I just don't see those as the same thing. You can talk about "optimal choices", but I don't think that really plays into what PF2 is unless you can start naming them. At the end, you aren't really harmed by not taking certain things because what balances your math is already baked into the system; what changes is how you use those numbers. [/QUOTE]

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