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<blockquote data-quote="Teemu" data-source="post: 9057316" data-attributes="member: 30788">PF2 is pretty accurate for characters like Worf though. Even if you had +5 Charisma, your Diplomacy and Deception could be horrible and completely unusable if they were untrained skills, assuming you're playing past the first few levels. At level 10 for example, a +5 to a skill might as well be +0 because most everything meaningful has a DC you can't even dream of beating.So that's to say, proficiency is much more meaningful than ability scores. You can play a very intimidating character who's really bad at persuasion and deception, as long as you invest in Intimidate and ignore Diplomacy and Deception. You don't necessarily have to invest in Charisma as long as you always use your rank bumps on Intimidate and acquire an item bonus to the skill.In general PF2 pulls off this feature much better than 5e, but it also means that if you're untrained in a skill, you will basically never succeed at level appropriate checks with the untrained skills (past first few levels). Untrained Improvisation helps, but it showcases just how unevenly balanced general feats are.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Teemu, post: 9057316, member: 30788"] PF2 is pretty accurate for characters like Worf though. Even if you had +5 Charisma, your Diplomacy and Deception could be horrible and completely unusable if they were untrained skills, assuming you're playing past the first few levels. At level 10 for example, a +5 to a skill might as well be +0 because most everything meaningful has a DC you can't even dream of beating. So that's to say, proficiency is much more meaningful than ability scores. You can play a very intimidating character who's really bad at persuasion and deception, as long as you invest in Intimidate and ignore Diplomacy and Deception. You don't necessarily have to invest in Charisma as long as you always use your rank bumps on Intimidate and acquire an item bonus to the skill. In general PF2 pulls off this feature much better than 5e, but it also means that if you're untrained in a skill, you will basically never succeed at level appropriate checks with the untrained skills (past first few levels). Untrained Improvisation helps, but it showcases just how unevenly balanced general feats are. [/QUOTE]

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