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<blockquote data-quote="nevin" data-source="post: 9057505" data-attributes="member: 7024481"><p>there's a huge cognitive disconnect in the way pathfinder try's to limit players.&nbsp; &nbsp; I think it's one of the limiting factors that will prevent it from ever becoming as large as DND.&nbsp;&nbsp; giving someone an ability and saying &quot;it's magic&quot;&nbsp; works it's easy to accept.&nbsp; Saying no you can now be a specialist evoker but you forget everything you knew about being a specialist Diviner is just mentally painful and weird.&nbsp;&nbsp; I get the reason for the mechanic,&nbsp; it apeals to the min-maxer crowd which is Pathfinder's core group of customers but for non min-maxer's it's like pebbles in your shoes.&nbsp;&nbsp; And that kind of lack of continuity to achieve a goal is fundamental to the entire pathfinder design.&nbsp; It's why magic is so goofy in pathfinder.&nbsp; Things are just decided in individual spells that contradict with what other spells do to keep balance.&nbsp;&nbsp; Playing either version of pathfinder for me is like walking around with pebbles in each shoe.&nbsp; &nbsp; The only thing worse for me is when people try to tell me that it all makes sense.&nbsp;&nbsp; Because not one single system in pathfinder that is designed logically from&nbsp; start to finish.&nbsp;&nbsp; They just add arbitrary rules to achieve design goals.&nbsp; Obviously not my game.&nbsp;&nbsp; I tried 2e.&nbsp; I'll play 1e if it's the only game available but the arbitrary rules just suck the fun out of it.</p></blockquote><p></p>

[QUOTE="nevin, post: 9057505, member: 7024481"] there's a huge cognitive disconnect in the way pathfinder try's to limit players. I think it's one of the limiting factors that will prevent it from ever becoming as large as DND. giving someone an ability and saying "it's magic" works it's easy to accept. Saying no you can now be a specialist evoker but you forget everything you knew about being a specialist Diviner is just mentally painful and weird. I get the reason for the mechanic, it apeals to the min-maxer crowd which is Pathfinder's core group of customers but for non min-maxer's it's like pebbles in your shoes. And that kind of lack of continuity to achieve a goal is fundamental to the entire pathfinder design. It's why magic is so goofy in pathfinder. Things are just decided in individual spells that contradict with what other spells do to keep balance. Playing either version of pathfinder for me is like walking around with pebbles in each shoe. The only thing worse for me is when people try to tell me that it all makes sense. Because not one single system in pathfinder that is designed logically from start to finish. They just add arbitrary rules to achieve design goals. Obviously not my game. I tried 2e. I'll play 1e if it's the only game available but the arbitrary rules just suck the fun out of it. [/QUOTE]

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