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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cadfan" data-source="post: 4495854" data-attributes="member: 40961">I feel like I should clarify my opinion on this.I consider "just wing it" to be a valid profession/craft system.  It was the only system I had when I first started gaming, and it worked just fine.  I don't think you can rule out counting player/dm interaction as part of the game set- its what makes RPGs into RPGs, in a way, so it has to count for something.So for me the question isn't "should D&D have craft and profession rules?"  Because it always will, as long as there are DMs and character backstories.  The question is more, "what sort of craft and profession rules should D&D have?"  Or perhaps, "should D&D have 3e style craft and profession skills?"And I think the answer to that is "no."  I prefer winging it to using the 3e style system.  I don't think this reflects a change in game focus, or really anything at all.  I guess I can see how someone might feel that way, but since my first character ever was a rules cyclopedia wizard who was also a master blacksmith in a game system with no crafting rules, I don't feel much change.To my mind, the failure of the 3e version of craft and profession rules was that:1. Poor siloing.  Having been raised as a blacksmith's apprentice shouldn't trade off as heavily as it did with things like learning to jump, swim, or climb trees.2. Unclear outcomes.  Not always true, but often true.3a. Too precise.  5% increments aren't really necessary for most profession or craft skills.  Is it really important that one character have a +12 at weaving, while another has +13 at fletchery?  Probably not.  3b. Too precise.  This is also related to number 2.  Too much precision in statistics without much precision in outcome.4. Take 10 and Take 20 made a lot of that precision pointless.  This is related to 3a.  Why differentiate between a +12 and a +13 if you're just going to Take 10 or 20 anyways and beat the DC by a mile?5. Unclear overlap with a lot of other skills.  The stereotypical example was Profession: Sailor, and how it affected all your other sailing related skills.There are places in the game where bonuses spread across a d20 make sense, but I don't think its here.  At least not for most skills and most campaigns.  Winging it gets you through without all the rigmarole.</blockquote>

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