There are still requests for Crafting and profession-related skills, now that 4e has taken them out, and as I try to think about them... I can't come up with why they should be there.
And I mean that for any rpg.
Unless you're playing Hammer and Chisel: Craftsman Adventures, I can't see a purpose for having any sort of profession or craft skill.
Why would you spend the time to make mundane items? Even if you are getting half, or even a fifth of market prices, after at what, 3rd level, those prices don't matter. You're swimming in gold or counting every copper because you want/need +2 armor, +3 sword, and a few misc items.
"But my character should repair his own items!" Seeing as I've never seen a mechanic for wear and tear of items, then you don't need a mechanical representation of repairing your items.
"But it's part of my background/personality!" Still doesn't explain the necessity for a mechanic. I don't need to take a "Orphan" to designate my family was killed by x. Nor do I need "Lady's Man" to designate my charismatic character as being a woman chaser. Or even "Drunkard" to designate that I immediately go for the alehouse as soon as we roll into town with our swag. (Exceptions made for HERO and SotC, where these have actual impact on the system).
You must be thinking, "But Rechan! What if my players want to make magical items!" Okay, let me ask you something. Your party has spent the last three sessions hunting down the necessary materials to make a magical widget. They put everything together, and ... roll a 1. Do you honestly plan to say "Sorry, your efforts were in vain. No item." The same question applies if you journey far and wide to the greatest swordsmith in the world, do you expect to have him roll a craft skill to make the weapon?
I take it back that I see no reason to have crafting/profession skills. In a naval campaign, profession (sailor) would be taken, but then you'd be using that stat so often it just becomes a god-stat compared to the others. If during downtime your PC wanted to do some smithing to make extra cash from some locals, that's a distinct possibility. But then, that opens the door for the wizard to just go around casting his spells for a fee and raking in a ton of dough.
The answer may be "To make traps/poisons!" Although there has never been adequate rules for either (1,000GP for a pit!?), unless you scrounge around the 3rd party materials in the first place, so that can't be the answer.
Perhaps there's just a disconnect between those that like the craft/profession skills and my taste in games. I know people who enjoy accounting for every goldpiece, take a level of Aristocrat for the starting gold bump. Meanwhile I was frustrated with the notion of spending days of downtime (something of a rarity) rolling for the potential to put spells in a spellbook. But if you're going to go that far, why not just roll every day to make sure you don't step into a gopher hole or catch some horribly common disease?
My ultimate point is, if the purpose is story and fleshing out your character, then why shouldn't the DM just say, "Okay, what you just wanted, you do it." The wear and tear of items is a good example. Most DMs I would say would just hand-wave the fighter fixing his stuff because he brought it up. ("Well, that fight tore my armor, I'm going to fix it." "Hold on there champ, until you do, you get a -2 to AC.")
We don't have rules for repairing the wear and tear of items, or what happens when the cleric shows up at church (does he tithe? Where's his paycheck? Why isn't he helping heal the sick and such? Oh, he's an adventurer? Guess we'll just handwave all that minutia) so why not just handwave the stuff with some description? If you the player are so hell-bent on it, then why can't the DM just let you describe what you do? Because ultimately that's what you want, isn't it?
Unlike conflicts needing to resolve, the background, fleshy stuff is just that. Unless your DM is one in a million, and makes Concentration, Endurance, Profession (Carpenter) have a front-row seat for the adventure, then it's not going to effect the adventure, let alone a pivotal role in the story. Because unless it does, unless it gets you closer to the goal, then it's no different than having a mechanical subsystem to find out if you picked up the barmaid at the tavern or not.
Finally, I ask another question. I am willing to hypothesize that only a small subset of players and DMs would emphasize or strongly use the craft/profession skills. If that is the case (and remember, the question hinges on IF it is), then should they be in the core rules of an RPG?
And I mean that for any rpg.
Unless you're playing Hammer and Chisel: Craftsman Adventures, I can't see a purpose for having any sort of profession or craft skill.
Why would you spend the time to make mundane items? Even if you are getting half, or even a fifth of market prices, after at what, 3rd level, those prices don't matter. You're swimming in gold or counting every copper because you want/need +2 armor, +3 sword, and a few misc items.
"But my character should repair his own items!" Seeing as I've never seen a mechanic for wear and tear of items, then you don't need a mechanical representation of repairing your items.
"But it's part of my background/personality!" Still doesn't explain the necessity for a mechanic. I don't need to take a "Orphan" to designate my family was killed by x. Nor do I need "Lady's Man" to designate my charismatic character as being a woman chaser. Or even "Drunkard" to designate that I immediately go for the alehouse as soon as we roll into town with our swag. (Exceptions made for HERO and SotC, where these have actual impact on the system).
You must be thinking, "But Rechan! What if my players want to make magical items!" Okay, let me ask you something. Your party has spent the last three sessions hunting down the necessary materials to make a magical widget. They put everything together, and ... roll a 1. Do you honestly plan to say "Sorry, your efforts were in vain. No item." The same question applies if you journey far and wide to the greatest swordsmith in the world, do you expect to have him roll a craft skill to make the weapon?
I take it back that I see no reason to have crafting/profession skills. In a naval campaign, profession (sailor) would be taken, but then you'd be using that stat so often it just becomes a god-stat compared to the others. If during downtime your PC wanted to do some smithing to make extra cash from some locals, that's a distinct possibility. But then, that opens the door for the wizard to just go around casting his spells for a fee and raking in a ton of dough.
The answer may be "To make traps/poisons!" Although there has never been adequate rules for either (1,000GP for a pit!?), unless you scrounge around the 3rd party materials in the first place, so that can't be the answer.
Perhaps there's just a disconnect between those that like the craft/profession skills and my taste in games. I know people who enjoy accounting for every goldpiece, take a level of Aristocrat for the starting gold bump. Meanwhile I was frustrated with the notion of spending days of downtime (something of a rarity) rolling for the potential to put spells in a spellbook. But if you're going to go that far, why not just roll every day to make sure you don't step into a gopher hole or catch some horribly common disease?
My ultimate point is, if the purpose is story and fleshing out your character, then why shouldn't the DM just say, "Okay, what you just wanted, you do it." The wear and tear of items is a good example. Most DMs I would say would just hand-wave the fighter fixing his stuff because he brought it up. ("Well, that fight tore my armor, I'm going to fix it." "Hold on there champ, until you do, you get a -2 to AC.")
We don't have rules for repairing the wear and tear of items, or what happens when the cleric shows up at church (does he tithe? Where's his paycheck? Why isn't he helping heal the sick and such? Oh, he's an adventurer? Guess we'll just handwave all that minutia) so why not just handwave the stuff with some description? If you the player are so hell-bent on it, then why can't the DM just let you describe what you do? Because ultimately that's what you want, isn't it?
Unlike conflicts needing to resolve, the background, fleshy stuff is just that. Unless your DM is one in a million, and makes Concentration, Endurance, Profession (Carpenter) have a front-row seat for the adventure, then it's not going to effect the adventure, let alone a pivotal role in the story. Because unless it does, unless it gets you closer to the goal, then it's no different than having a mechanical subsystem to find out if you picked up the barmaid at the tavern or not.
Finally, I ask another question. I am willing to hypothesize that only a small subset of players and DMs would emphasize or strongly use the craft/profession skills. If that is the case (and remember, the question hinges on IF it is), then should they be in the core rules of an RPG?
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