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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 4504506" data-attributes="member: 2067">So the wrought iron fence made of tigers is appropriate. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I like it when my story is supported by the mechanics (and also when my story supports the mechanics). When this doesn't happen in a tabletop game, it's very annoying to me, because the mechanics are the primary lens through which I see the story being told. If they don't support each other, for me, there may as well not be a story, since it's just an excuse for the mechanics (or, vice-versa, there may as well not be any dice rolling, because we can do whatever we want anyway). If there's no mechanical support for my story, I'll just go put on a play. If there's no story support for my mechanics, I'll just go play videogames. When they work together, I'm playing a role-playing game in the most fantastically fun sense I can. Without that combo, I have other choices that do each side better.But they didn't give us a craft or profession system, which is my criticism (and not just mine, from the looks of it). Any bigger points can be made in other threads. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />But there wasn't a way that was given. That is a problem. It is a failing for those who value those things coming into 4e. For some, it'll be THE most important thing. For others, it'll be one thing among many. For some, it'll just be something they need to shore up with a house rule. For others, it'll actually be a good thing because the only people who ever used that system ended up not enjoying themselves. There is a continuum. Not everyone can be happy with the division. If you didn't like 3e's craft or profession system, there were not only several alternate systems, there was also the option of ignoring it completely by simply not taking those skills. So in this respect, 4e has failed to improve. Which isn't surprising, since there is no 4e craft or profession system.I didn't say (nor would I say) that 4e cannot have a craft or profession system. I'm just saying that it doesn't have one by default, and that is a valid problem for some players. "But they can house rule it in!" isn't really a defense of 4e on this point. It's admitting that 4e has failed, but that a DM can make up for that failure.No kidding. A DM can make up for any failure, in any edition, in a variety of ways. That's not really the point. The point is that for some people, it is a failure. If we can accept that, we can accept that other games or editions might be preferable to people, and we can accept that, when 4e comes out with its inevitable craft/profession system, it will be of immense use to some players and DMs. And if we can all accept that, then there isn't really much of a debate on this point anymore. We all agree! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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