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Message: <blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 4505653" data-attributes="member: 2067">The tiger-fence exists in any place that the game and story don't affect each other (it is the barrier between the two), wherever the dissonance occurs. It's a barrier. The direction of the flow isn't important.The power that knocks someone prone is both story (you knock them down!) and gameplay (knocking them down has XYZ effects). When you can use it to knock down something that can't really be knocked down (by still giving them XYZ effects), there is a divide between the story you're telling and the mechanics you're using. This divide is the barrier. It's the wrought iron fence made of tigers. It is what, upthread, was called the brick wall and the moat. It is what stands between a DM Fiat crafting system and a more mechanical crafting system.Again, that's not the point. A DM can fix any problem in any game. The point isn't "can someone fix this?!" The point is "Is this a problem in the first place?"If we agree that it's a problem in the first place, then there isn't any real debate. We agree.Whether or not it's easy or fun or useful to fix is not the issue.That's great, but it's not really the point of the conversation. If you want to move the goalposts and talk about that, sure, but it might be better to start a new thread for it, since that's not really what this thread is about as far as I can tell. The failure is in requiring you to wing it. Winging it isn't good enough for some games because these systems are important to some games, yet 4e requires you to pull something out of thin air if it is important to you, while it provides you ample guidance on, say, how many 5' squares you can move on a grid when your turn comes up, and what that movement effects.4e requires you to wing it? 4e fails (at this). Regardless of if it succeeds at making winging it easy or not.</blockquote>

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