Profession(Token Maker)

Vlos

First Post
Okay, I have a Shaman character I love playing and she requires Tokens and such for her spells. In the spell descriptions (like Substitution from OA)it lists the costs and sizes of the the Tokens, but I wanted to add some more flavor to making these. Finding special mediums and such in game.

Now from a game point of view some may just say that a Shaman should be able to collect a Token to a spirit, but that doesn't justify the game rules for them costing money. Below puts a process as to how and why tokens cost money.

This is a house rule I am proposing to my GM to add some flavor. Yes it probably is more than needed, but I like it.


This will be treated like a Profession/Craft skill. I can either buy a sword I need or I can make one. If I have time/skill I can make one.

First lets define Tokens

Spirit Tokens:
A small somewhat natural material (medium) which spirits either like or inhabit. Often these require to be carved/molded/shaped into a form that would please the type of spirit she is trying to either please (as a gift) or house (as a home) for the spirit. Some spells require a donation to the spirit, I just can't see handing over 100gp or 1000gp. So I would assume I would hand over a Spirit Token worth 100gp or 1000gp.

- Probably carved/shaped/molded into specific forms.
- Proper medium for spirits (different spirits like different materials)



To Craft a Spirit Token:
To craft a spirit token one must first gather the proper medium she wishes to use for the specific spirit or type of spirits. The different sizes of spirits and different types of spirits will influence how a token is made. This will include the materials it will use as the medium and the shape the token will take.

Second, some Spirit Tokens may require a process to prepare (other than just shaping) for example mixing in herbs or burning incense to attract a spirit. [In game terms these will help to justify the costs and expenditure. For example finding a piece of wood and then carving it for a spirit costs nothing more than time, but if we require that the carved wood be boiled in special herbs (which cost money) and then dried with burning incense (which costs money) it seems more justified].

Third, most Spirit Tokens require a process to prepare. Just finding a piece of wood is not good enough, but requires either chanting, herbs or incense to prepare.


Spirit Info based on Size of connection:
(Note: This is the size of the Spirit, and not the token, tokens are small/tiny items)
Tiny Spirit Token (being, elemental or fey) – Usually a free roaming spirit:
Skill Check DC: 10 Materials: 25 gp
Domain Size: 10 feet
Tk Hit Points: 10

Minor Spirit Token (stream, tree) – May travel slightly within limited area:
Skill Check DC: 15 Materials: 250 gp
Domain Size: 500 feet
Tk Hit Points: 25

Medium Spirit Token (river, glade, grove) – Largely Immobile:
Skill Check DC: 24 Materials: 500 gp
Domain Size: 1 Mile
Tk Hit Points: 50

Large Spirit Token (mountain, lake) – Immobile:
Skill Check DC: 30 Materials: 1000+ gp
Domain Size: 10 Miles
Tk Hit Points: 100


Also the uniqueness of a spirit will influence the shape and costs. A more common spirit, like elementals can take a more general shape, while a rare or unique spirit will require a very fine/fancy carved/shaped Token. The shape of the Token will increase the DC required to make a Token. Also the Uniqueness will increase a Tokens Hit Points (THP). The increase is based on HD of the Spirit for the token.

DC Adjustments based on Rareness and size of Target Spirit:
Common/Medium: DC +0, THP: +0, Costs: N/A
Uncommon/Large: DC +10, THP +1/HD, Costs: x1.5
Rare/Huge: DC +15, THP: +2/HD, Costs: x2
Unique/Gargantuan: DC +20, THP: +3/HD, Costs: x3


Game Process:
Crafting a Spirit token will use rules similar to craft/profession where you make skill checks to see how much you have prepared a spirit token in SP, but skills can be used in sinergy. It is a profession because it requires more than just carving a token, one must gather and shape the medium (materials) along with collecting any herbs or incense needed and then performing the proper process to prepare the token. Below are the game steps which need to be taken.

Collecting the Medium:
The Medium or Materials must be either found or purchased. To find the proper materials the Profession(Token maker) is the base skill, but gets a sinergy bonus from Knowledge(Nature) as you know where to find the proper medium and Knowledge(Spirits) what to find. The DC result check is how much the medium is worth. For example it is easier to find a piece of Wood than Gold or piece of Jade. Thus if you need Jade for the Medium use the DC result check multiplied by the target DC to get the value of the materials collected each week. Note the type of item can be upto the GM, he can make them all gems or for more versatility, he can have a different material for each spirit.

If buying the medium just apply it towards the costs of the Token.

A DC check is required against half of the target DC, but just checking to see if proper materials were gotten. If the DC result is equal to or greater than half the target DC the proper materials are collected. If the DC result is missed by less than 4, then the wrong materials were collected, but it is caught now. If the DC result misses by 5 or more than the error isn't caught till the end DC check.

Shaping the Token:
Not all tokens will require shaping or molding, but doing so increases the value of the Token. Thus to prepare Tokens for Large/Rare spirits would probably require shaping, while a Tiny/minor spirit wouldn't require any shaping.

To Shape a token you can use either Craft(Talisman) with a sinergy bonus from Profession(Token maker). Or you can use Profession(Token maker)/2 with a sinergy bonus from Craft(Talisman).

A DC check is required against half of the target DC, but just checking to see if medium was properly shaped. If the DC result is equal to or greater than half the target DC then it was properly shaped. If the DC result is missed by less than 4, then the wrong shape was used, but it is caught now. If the DC result misses by 5 or more than the error isn't caught till the end DC check.

Collecting the Enhancers(Herbs/Incense):
You can either buy herbs and/or incense, or you can collect them naturally. If collecting them, use Profession(Token maker) as the base and you get a sinergy bonus again from Knowledge(Nature) to know where to find them, and Knowledge(Spirits) what to find. You can substitute Profession(Herbalist) in place of Profession(Token maker), and would gain a sinergy bonus from both Knowledge(Nature) and Profession(Token maker) and Knowledge(Spirits) what to find. Again the DC result check is multiplied by the target DC to determine the value collected each week.

If buying herbs and incense just apply it towards the costs of the Token.

A DC check is required against half of the target DC, but just checking to see if the proper herbs/incense were collected. If the DC result is equal to or greater than half the target DC then the proper herbs were collected. If the DC result is missed by less than 4, then the wrong herbs/incense were collected, but it is caught now. If the DC result misses by 5 or more than the error isn't caught till the end DC check.

Preparing Token:
Once the medium is found and shaped and the herbs and incense are gathered the token must be prepared. This is the process of applying the herbs/incense to the medium and is the DC check made to see if the Token is properly prepared. The cost of the token is the minimum cost to of the token. Every factor of cost greater than the mimimum cost grants a circumstance bonus to the DC of +1. So Seebora is creating a Tiny/Common/Medium Token, the base cost is 25gp. If the actual cost of the Token is 50gp she gets a circumstance bonus of +1. If the actual cost is 75gp, she gets a circumstance bonus of +2, etc.

If the DC result is equal to greater than target DC the Token is done and prepared. If the DC result is less than the target DC by no more than 4, she has to spend another day processing it. If the DC result misses by 5 or more then half the costs of the Token and herbs are wasted/lost and must be repeated. This process takes 1 day per 1000gp.

Examples:
01) If Seebora was creating a Tiny Token tied to an elder(huge) earth elemental the base DC is 10, its a common spirit DC+0, but its huge earth elemental granting more THP so DC+15 for a total DC of 25 and a cost of 50gp, not that hard to craft. The Token would grant a total of 58THP. Seebora has can gather clay and mold it into a shape and then gather incense and prepare the Token, or she could buy a clay statue. In buying items the still often need to be prepared in some fashion.

02) Now lets say she wants to craft a large spirit token tied to a Marid (Large Water Elemental 11HD). Base DC is 30, probably more rare thus DC+15, and is a Large Creature DC+10 for a total DC 55 and a cost of 3000gp, which would grant her 100 + 22 [11x2] + 11 [11x1] = 133 HP, now she wouldn't be able to craft this until she was around level 30.



Note: These costs were taken from both the Spell "Seebora's Spirit Channel" a spell my GM created and the Substitution Spell from OA (which is what she really needs to the tokens for, and role playing purposes).


GM Notes: Need to decide how many HD things like mountains and other non-beings have. This would probably be best based on the size catagory of the spirit.

Lastly, yes this got a little out of hand, but since I'm bored I figured it would be fun.
 
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I'm not familiar with the spirit token system you speak of, though I have a few quick thoughts on the subject based on what you have written.

1) the price goes rather high - beyond the cost herbs, oils and incense would cost. It looks like you would have better luck comparing historic/magic associations of gems, perhaps using carved gemstone as the token?

2) do these tokens have value to other shaman, or only to the one who 'sets it'? perhaps a worth to non-shaman (if made of carved gemstone)?

B:]B
 

In Oriental Adventures a few spells require a Spirit Token. They just give costs and hit points based on the material. Also other spells like Spirit Ally require a "payment". And "Commune with Spirit" Lessor/Greater also require payments/offerings. I just can't see handing over gold coins to a spirit, especially a spirit like a Mountain or Lake spirit.

Also our group has started creating other spells like the ones below. and again tryingn to add flavor by requiring Spirit offerings.

Thus I am trying to come up with a way to create spirit tokens which make sense and add some flavor to the game.


1) the price goes rather high - beyond the cost herbs, oils and incense would cost. It looks like you would have better luck comparing historic/magic associations of gems, perhaps using carved gemstone as the token?
Yes the costs do go a little. But only for the more powerful Spirit tokens which would grant more power. Yes gems could be used as a token for a type of spirit, but I would doubt a spirit of a large Forest would care for a gem, but would probably favor something made of wood.


2) do these tokens have value to other shaman, or only to the one who 'sets it'? perhaps a worth to non-shaman (if made of carved gemstone)?
I would have to say yes. A shaman could create spirit tokens and sell them to other shamans. In OA they have a magic item called a Talisman, which is similar in use to a potion, thus these spirit tokens could be used in creating a Talisman.

In their own right they may be collectable/valuable. For example a Spirit token to a mountain may very well be a diamond, or a Small statue carved of obsidian. Superstious people may collect them. By having them many new spells and plots can be introduced.

Also new uses/spells could be used with the Tokens. For example, currently there is no "Arcane Lock" so maybe a new spell which locks and only one with the spirit token can open it.


New Spells:

Seebora's Spirit Channel (Revised)
Level: 7th
Components: V, M
Casting Time: Standard Action or 1 Minute
Range: Personal
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: None
Duration: Instantaneous

By calling on certain, friendly spirits Seebora can instantly transport her spirit and body to the domain of the appropriate spirit. This spell allows the Seebora to instantly travel to set locations where she has previously established a spiritual connection.

The target spirited destination must be a friendly spirit and can be located on any plane (the casting time is one standard action for travel on the same plane, and 1 minute for interplanar travel). The caster can appear anywhere within the domain of the targeted spirit - the actual location is determined by the will of the guiding spirit (when casting the spell Seebora can request a specific arrival point).

Seebora can carry 20lbs per level with her when she travels and is never off target, as the guiding spirit will direct her to a safe location.

To establish a connection, Seebora must travel to the location and make friendly contact with a local spirit that does not wander over a wide geographical area. Befriending a spirit requires a Knowledge(Spirits) check and an offering to the spirit, with the cost and DCs varying on the type of spirit. A small token for each connection channel must be created (much like the tuning fork used in plane shift). A Commune with Spirits spell is necessary to begin process, and Seebora must commune with the spirit for at least 12 hours prior to making her skill check.

Minor spirit (stream, tree) – May travel slightly within limited area:
Skill Check DC: 15 Offering: 250 gp
Domain Size: 500 feet

Medium spirit (river, glade or grove) – Largely Immobile:
Skill Check DC: 24 Offering: 500 gp
Domain Size: 1 Mile

Large spirit (mountain or lake) – Immobile:
Skill Check DC: 30 Offering: 1000 gp
Domain Size: 10 Miles

Creating a token requires half a day and costs 100 gp. Seebora can maintain up to 12 spiritual connections at once (after than point, establishing more connections makes it difficult for Seebora to maintain the appropriate level of contact and communication necessary to stay within the good graces of the chosen spirit). Once a connection with a particular spirit has been established, Seebora may commune with that spirit at any time (with the appropriate spell) regardless of the distance or number of planes separating her from the chosen spirit to inquire about the status of the spirit’s domain.

Spells that block or prohibit travel via Gate/Teleport and similar spells will also block Seebora's Spirit Travel.



Dream Spirit Journey (Modified from WOTC Psionics)
Level: Shaman 7
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Targets: You and touched creature or creatures (up to one/level)
Duration: 1 hour/level (D)
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

You and any creature you touch are drawn into the region of dreams. You can take more than one creature along with you (subject to your level limit), but each one must be touching another one. You physically enter the land of dreams, leaving nothing behind.

In the region of dreams, you move through a menagerie of thoughts, desires, and phantoms created by the minds of dreamers everywhere. For every minute you move through dream, you can “wake” to find yourself five miles displaced in the waking world. Thus, a character can use this power to travel rapidly by physically entering where only dreams normally prowl, moving the desired distance, and then stepping back into the waking world. You know where you will come out in the waking world.

Dream travel can also be used to travel to other planes that contain creatures that dream, but doing this requires crossing into the dreams of outsiders, where you are subject to the vagaries of many dream realities—a potentially perilous proposition. Transferring to another plane of existence in this fashion requires 1d4 hours of uninterrupted travel.

Any creatures that come along when dream travel is manifested also make the transition to the borders of unconscious thought. A creature separated from you wanders off into the dreamscape. When the duration ends, all affected creatures return to the waking world as much as 1,000 miles (d%x10) from their starting point. If a creature remains in the dreamscape, it is powerless to leave unless it can manifest the dream travel power itself or someone who manifests the power seeks out the lost creature.
 

Ahhh - thank you for the clarification. Thoughts:

1) perhaps it should be knowledge (spirits) to know what offering is important. As you point out, mtn wants a diamond, but what does the spirit of this small lake want? It isn't a question of manufacturing - a huge raw diamond would appease the mtn spirit - its a question of what you use.

2) if it is a product - (going back to gems) - moss agate for the forest, or perhaps a soapstone carving of the forest's spirit (in this case a moose) - done to exacting detail. The extra detail makes it so damn expensive ('the antler needs to be wider here, the hoof bottom has a scratch....').

3) if it is a product - it should mean more if made by the shaman, rather then bought from another shaman - and that would still be worth more then one bought from the local wal-mart.

4) perhaps having the token for a spirit gives a +1 save against spells sourced from that spirit. not only are they great collectibles, they can save your ass! primitives may make regular offerings (much smaller - say some animal fat and mumble/prayers) - gaining a +1 survival in areas that spirit controls.

5) spirits could have a lot of interplay, loving/hating/friends of other spirits. do not get caught carrying the token of the spirit 'wind whipping through the valley' when speaking with 'bear spirit of the sacred pine grove'.

6) I'd lean towards unique tokens for each spirit, rather then a generic 'any old forest spirit' token.

B:]B
 

1) perhaps it should be knowledge (spirits) to know what offering is important. As you point out, mtn wants a diamond, but what does the spirit of this small lake want? It isn't a question of manufacturing - a huge raw diamond would appease the mtn spirit - its a question of what you use.

Yeah, I had thought about that, but thought maybe I should involve the profession skill in more than just the final put the pieces together, but it does make sense to have K(Spirits) tell you what a spirit would like.

2) if it is a product - (going back to gems) - moss agate for the forest, or perhaps a soapstone carving of the forest's spirit (in this case a moose) - done to exacting detail. The extra detail makes it so damn expensive ('the antler needs to be wider here, the hoof bottom has a scratch....').

Yes, again could use strictly gems, but I wanted to add variety, you know the old shaman plunking down on the floor looking through his/her pouch for the proper Token, tossing aside rat skulls, Twigs wound with vines shaped like a tree, or a clump of dried salt from the sea.

Oh, I think I understand now, the sizes are not the size of the Token, but rather the size of the spirit. For example if I want to make a token to a mountain that is harder to make than a token to a tree. The Token are always small items. Where it gives the sizes again its the size of the spirit the token is tied to, not the size of the actual token. Was that you were thinking?

So again for more clarification, to create a Token to a Mountain should cost around a 1000gp, because you are creating a strong token. This in most cases would probably be something related to a mountain, like a gem or rock. So lets say were going to make a token for a mountain at 1000gp and lets say its a non-gem, say rock or more specifically Obsidian. Now to get 1000gp worth of Obsidian would probably be fairly large, so we then carve the obsidian, which would increase the value (carved stones are usually more valuable than non-carved). But we still may not be at 1000gp value with a small statue of obsidian, so we then say you need to boil it in a solution of sand(comes from rocks) from the sea and mountain fresh water. The GM could add other herbs or incense which would bring the cost to 1000gp.

3) if it is a product - it should mean more if made by the shaman, rather then bought from another shaman - and that would still be worth more then one bought from the local wal-mart.
Yes I would agree to this, also dependant on the use of the Token. Maybe drop the size of token by one for every step removed from original owner. For example Seebora crafts a large token which would grant her 100hit points in the substitution spell, now she sells that token to a merchant whcih makes it a medium token (only granting 50hp) the merchant sells it to a wannabe who would only recieve 25hp from it. This would depend on how its used and the GM.


4) perhaps having the token for a spirit gives a +1 save against spells sourced from that spirit. not only are they great collectibles, they can save your ass! primitives may make regular offerings (much smaller - say some animal fat and mumble/prayers) - gaining a +1 survival in areas that spirit controls.
Yes, this would either be a Talisman (with a base Token) or would be used as part of another spell. In of themselves (just plain) tokens do not grant any bonus, but are used for spells, like material components. But that does not say a GM can't have them be more of a Talisman.

5) spirits could have a lot of interplay, loving/hating/friends of other spirits. do not get caught carrying the token of the spirit 'wind whipping through the valley' when speaking with 'bear spirit of the sacred pine grove'.
Yes this again would come from a GM. Many D&D worlds don't make use of Spirits like Oriental Adventures does, but my GM adopted a slightly less view of spirits for our world, basically all elementals are spirits, and some large natural resources have spirits. But not as much as OA.

6) I'd lean towards unique tokens for each spirit, rather then a generic 'any old forest spirit' token.
Yes Tokens should for the most part be used for specific spirits, but I wanted an option in there to mnake a more generic token for a type of creature. For example Fire ELementals come in many different forms. to make a specific one for each would be overkill(though some GMs may like that), so making a Fire elemental spirit token would cover any fire elemental, but once assigned to a fire elemental (bonded/used) it cannot be used for another fire elemental. It is tied to the first one.


Good input thanks.
 

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