D&D 5E Professions in 5e

[Umbran]

Except, as I noted, there's no ability, in the RAW, to gain that knowledge after character creation

Characters are busy running around saving dragons from princesses. You may pick up some tools. If you spend a feat, you may get skills. Picking up all the scattered knowledge of an entire profession? I dunno if that's reasonable with an adventuring lifestyle.

and there was no indication in the rules that I could see that you could even use a background as proficiency like that

That is less about professions, specifically, and more about taking 5e's,"Rulings, not rules," to heart.

 

[billd91]

that backgrounds are flavor text and some added skills and equipment, not a profession skill unto themselves.

That's part of the problem you're having. Don't think of them as flavor text. They're a way of life for the character before they start their adventuring life as a player character. Let them mean more than flavor text.

 

[prabe]

Characters are busy running around saving dragons from princesses. You may pick up some tools. If you spend a feat, you may get skills. Picking up all the scattered knowledge of an entire profession? I dunno if that's reasonable with an adventuring lifestyle.

While it might not be reasonable in your game--and it certainly wouldn't be reasonable in mine--I can see the possibility of a game where it would be.

That is less about professions, specifically, and more about taking 5e's,"Rulings, not rules," to heart.

Possibly. There are certainly a lot of differences in mindset, moving from 3.X to 5E.

 

[pming]

Hiya!

Full Disclosure: I didn't read every post, so someone may have covered this...

Okay, as I'm trying to learn 5e, and coming from a 2e and 3e heritage, I'm seeing a HUGE gap as I read through the Player's Handbook.

Are there no skills/proficiencies at all for a character to know a profession?

((SNIP))

It seems like a gaping hole in the skills system. So, is there an option I'm overlooking? Is there some rule I'm missing?

Backgrounds: These are the "professions". This is where you get the sentences you are looking for that say things like "...the character can...", "...the character is able to...", "...the character knows all about...", and stuff like that. What you won't find... "...the character makes a DC 15 check to...", "...the character can attempt a [skill check] at a +2 bonus...", etc.

Now...and this is KEY to understanding 5e...: THE GAME ABSOLUTELY REQUIRES A DM TO MAKE RULINGS!

Unlike previous editions, there are far less "+X bonus" or "DC ## Check" and what I guess you could call "multifaceted knowledge capabilities". What I mean is that the way 5e works is almost the exact opposite of 3.x. Here is a typical exchange from a 3e and a 5e stand point:

3e
DM: The 10' corridor continues beyond the deep, dark pit in front of you. The pit is 10' square, almost wall to wall...there is about a 3 or 4 inch ledge on the left and right side of the pit
Player: I'll jump across...I got [rolls dice] a 19 on my Jumping check.
DM: Right. It was DC15 to jump, so you make it to the other side. What about the rest of you?

5e
DM: The corridor continues beyond the deep, dark pit in front of you. The pit is roughly 10' square on all sides"
Player: Is the corridor exactly 10' here? With the pit? So no ledge or anything?
DM: There is a small ledge on the left and right side, but they're only about 3 or 4 inches wide.
Player: Hmmm....I think I'll try and jump it. I'll toss my backpack to the other side first...but I'll take my two potions out of it first and put them in my belt pouches. Then I'll take a running leap!
DM: Good idea. You toss your pack across without any trouble, after retrieving your two potions. Make an Athletics check.
Player: Can I use Acrobatics in stead? I have that as an actual proficient skill. I'll do a sort of 'wall run', where I run, jump at the side wall and use it to push off again to clear the pit!
DM: Sure. Go for it.
Player: [rolls dice] I got a 19...
DM: You perform your little feat of acrobatics with ease and land on the other side, right next to your backpack.

The biggest difference is that in 3e, it would typically be the PLAYER that "tells the DM what they are using to do something". But in 5e, it's the other way around. All the player does is describe what he want's his character to do ("jump the pit"), and maybe how ("leaping off the wall on the side"). The DM then decides first IF a roll is needed, and then WHAT Skill to use. The player often has a skill or ability in mind and can point this out, obviously, and most DM's will accept it if the Player describes how he intends to use, for example, Acrobatics in stead of Athletics to jump a pit.

So, when you want to make a PC that is a Soldier, you do just that. You choose whatever class you want, then you take the "Soldier" background. That give's you "access" to anything that you and the DM think it should. That would include "Drill & Ceremony" tasks. When you want your PC to perform it, you just say so. "I was a Soldier in the Kings Army for over 8 years, so I should be able to handle this little ceremony". The DM then thinks about all that DM stuff (differences between the PC's race culture vs the race and culture of the ceremony he want's to take part in, for example), and MAKES A RULING. Remember that bold and italicized text I said waaaaay up at the top? Yeah. That. The DM then simply states "You are pleased to realize that many of the steps, timings and moves are very similar to a couple drills and ceremonies you already know. You can do it without much trouble". ...the the Player can ask, for example, "Can I roll something to see how well I do?", to which the DM, again, MAKES A RULING and says "Sure. DC 5. Make an Intelligence based Athletics check. You can't fail, but how much over 5 is how well you do". The Player rolls. The game continues.

That's how 5e handles "professions"; in big, meta-groupings of descriptions....not in a dozen different Feats, Skills, Special Abilities, etc. That's going to be a strange thing to get used to if you learned with 2e/3e.

That said...there is absolutely NOTHING stopping you (or your DM) from simply saying "Ok guys, all the Skills from 3.5e's PHB are going to be used in stead of the 5e PHB ones, because there's more and we're used to them". The system is exactly the same: "Roll a d20, add stuff, beat a DC". The only difference is the bonuses are much smaller and harder to come by in 5e...but that's ok because the DC's are also a lot smaller and far less rolls need to be made. You CAN make them, if you like lots of rolling in your games, but the game functions best when a PC with a particular Background, Class, Race or whatever is just assumed to be at least as competent at their "stuff" as any NPC they come across, and thus, no rolls need to be made. "You have the Soldier Background, so yeah, you can do the D&C"...for example.

I guess the BIGGEST thing to accept: You, the Player, do NOT control the game....the DM does. You don't get to say "I'll use X Skill to do Y task". You can, and I suspect most tables do, but the general order of play is: "Player states what they want their PC to do. DM decides if a dice roll is needed and what adjustments the PC can apply". In short, all that "PC control of the minutia of the game" simply doesn't exist in 5e.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[iserith]

When could that kind of knowledge be useful in a game?

Let's say Bob the Fighter is undercover in the evil Imperial Army, trying to get to their headquarters to steal important plans. He's wearing the armor and tabard of an Imperial Soldier, he's passing himself off as a troop because they looted some gear from fallen soldiers a while back. . .but does he know what rank he's pretending to be? Does he know how to properly address different soldiers or recognize who he may need to salute?

The rules suggest that pulling together a disguise to pass as a city guard could be an Intelligence check (if a check is called for). This situation sounds substantially similar.

Or, the usually good Royal Army has set up a roadblock at the edge of the village at the bridge into town. They aren't letting anyone through, and that's keeping local craftsmen and farmers from taking their wares to market the next town over, and keeping travelling merchants away. It's hurting the town. . .but the soldiers have their orders. As it's not a tyrannical kingdom and the troops are generally LN or LG and doing as they're told, it wouldn't be a very Good-aligned choice to deal with the roadblock by force. . .so maybe knowing military bureaucracy and hierarchy enough to know who to go to in their military heirarchy to talk to about lifting the roadblock could be helpful. . .and maybe they're doing it for some reason the PC's could be helpful with (like doing it to be prepared for some dangerous monster they're afraid might try to storm into town soon, but the PC's could go fend it off and with proof of it being killed, the roadblock is lifted)

The Soldier's background feature, "Military Rank," seems appropriate to invoke here as a means by which the character can be automatically successful in this task.

 

[the Jester]

So, for example, if it's someone's background, letting them add their proficiency bonus to related tasks/knowledge from their background (that aren't already covered by other skills/proficiencies)?

Sure- and more than that, if, for example, an elf pc makes a check related to elven life, or a wizard tries to figure out what some wizardly notes are concerning, etc, etc, you can simply let them apply their proficiency. It's a judgment call- e.g. should this guy need Arcana to apply his bonus?- but I do this all the time. And I expand on that, too; sometimes a check is only possible if you're proficient, for instance.

Maybe letting players learn a profession (equivalent ability to being able to doing the checks with their background) with the same time/training rules for learning a language or a proficiency in a set of tools?

Like with my soldiering example, if it wasn't their background, but if during the campaign if someone spends 250 days in a regular army, let them gain essentially "proficiency" with soldiering and be able to use their proficiency bonus on appropriate checks?

Sure, I'd do that. To use an example from my campaign, one pc used 250 days of downtime to gain proficiency in Law.

I actually expanded the training rules significantly for my campaign; you can pick up proficiency in a skill, tool, language, weapon, armor, or shield, and you can also use it like you described above- to gain proficiency in e.g. the law, soldiering, farming, etc.

 

[Umbran]

Sure, I'd do that. To use an example from my campaign, one pc used 250 days of downtime to gain proficiency in Law.

This is one reason to use a ruling for the table in question. I look at 250 days, and think that's incredibly short for that kind of effort. In the real world, it takes three years to get through law school, and more to get on the job experience to fully fill out what I'd call "professional level proficiency." And, I'd have to ask - if it takes less than a year, why doesn't just about everyone of any wealth have it? But that's me, not Jester.

 

[Flamestrike]

When could that kind of knowledge be useful in a game?

Let's say Bob the Fighter is undercover in the evil Imperial Army, trying to get to their headquarters to steal important plans. He's wearing the armor and tabard of an Imperial Soldier, he's passing himself off as a troop because they looted some gear from fallen soldiers a while back. . .but does he know what rank he's pretending to be? Does he know how to properly address different soldiers or recognize who he may need to salute?

You give him an Intelligence check, with advantage on account of his background.

Does it need to be more complex than that?

 

[jsaving]

I'm very puzzled as to why there would need to be rules, or even a roll, for this. If a player wants their character to role-play a heretofore-unknown aspect of their history that gives them interesting role-playing opportunities without impacting their combat power, who cares? D&D novels do this all the time and it's hard to see why you'd want to close off that kind of thing in a campaign. In fact I'd give out a bonus XP award for that, provided the player didn't try to leverage her creativity into combat bonuses ("now that we agree I know about snakes, I want to coat my weapon with cobra venom...").

 

[wingsandsword]

Characters are busy running around saving dragons from princesses. You may pick up some tools. If you spend a feat, you may get skills. Picking up all the scattered knowledge of an entire profession? I dunno if that's reasonable with an adventuring lifestyle.

In the real world, learning the profession of being a Soldier takes a few months, same for being a police officer. You can learn a lot in a few months of downtime.

D&D games I've played in have often had weeks or months of downtimes between adventures, especially between plot arcs.

Maybe they decide to take some downtime while their Cleric is working on crafting some big important magic item they need and spent several quests getting all the components for, and right as he was finishing up with that, his Church decides to send him on a retreat to a monastery that will also take months and in that time he lives cloistered off in the mountains and essentially gains the hermit profession. . .

The fighter the party got conscripted into the Royal Army, and there's a year long gap of his conscription before he's available for adventuring again, and in that time he learns soldiering.

The party wizard from a hermit background decides to join mainstream wizard society and joins a college of wizardry and enters academia. . .and he's essentially learning the Sage profession.

The party thief from a charlatan's background decides he's actually pretty dang good with crafting and figures he'll try his hand at honest labor with a crafting guild. . .and picks up the Guild Artisan profession.

Then, a year later when the Cleric has finished his crafting and pilgrimage, the fighter's conscription in the army is ending, the wizard now has a minor faculty position at the college and is now eligible to take a sabbatical to go on some more adventures, the thief is now a recognized journeyman and is free to travel to other masters to learn from (which means he can also meet up with his old buddies). . .and after a year apart and learning and having their own adventures they have each learned a new profession, but are now back together and able to adventure again.