D&D 5E 5e Monster Stats by Level (not CR)

[Stalker0]

Yeah, I agree that I can't see a high-level game without magic items, so I guess they'd be there in some way, shape, or form. Still, I don't know how you can even come close to figuring out what the "average" PC will have.

Especially magic arms and armor. The biggest factor here being the “resistance to non-magical weapons” being a ribbon ability at high levels…unless the creature has the means of generating anti-magic fields or something where that ability is likely to kick in

 

[dave2008]

Yeah, I agree that I can't see a high-level game without magic items, so I guess they'd be there in some way, shape, or form. Still, I don't know how you can even come close to figuring out what the "average" PC will have.

I better there is some information I could find, but I am really just talking about an assumption I use to base monsters on, so I am not concerned if it is 100% accurate. It is making sure everyone understands what the assumptions are.

 

[dave2008]

Especially magic arms and armor. The biggest factor here being the “resistance to non-magical weapons” being a ribbon ability at high levels…unless the creature has the means of generating anti-magic fields or something where that ability is likely to kick in

Well with an assumed magic item usage, those traits would just really be ribbons, it would not affect the monster's level.

 

[dave2008]

OK, here is my first stab at a Monsters by Level table. The idea is that one monster roughly equals one "average" PC at the same level.

What is an "average" PC. I didn't get to fancy with it, but I tried to get an average HP & DPR and expected AC and attack bonus from level 1-20 for a 4 person group (cleric, fighter, rogue, wizard). This chart also assume magic items (see the +1, 2, & 3 in parentheses). I wanted to get peoples thoughts and then I will tweak these numbers. So what do you think? Is this a good place to start?

PS - When designing monsters the level is revised as noted in the DMG for CR, except you use this chart.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Looks pretty close to me. My version of this chart has HP a little lower and DPR a little higher, but I think that I might have done that on purpose to make fights fast and furious.

 

[dave2008]

Looks pretty close to me. My version of this chart has HP a little lower and DPR a little higher, but I think that I might have done that on purpose to make fights fast and furious.

At this point I am trying to just get an "average" PC / Monster. I plan to add:

• Minons
• Grunts
• Stanard (this chart)
• Elites
• Paragons

 

[dave2008]

Looks pretty close to me. My version of this chart has HP a little lower and DPR a little higher, but I think that I might have done that on purpose to make fights fast and furious.

PS - I was planning to up the damage about 15% based on some additional study, but I wanted to get people's opinions first. I need to go back and look at the 1-20 PC tables I made too.

 

[dave2008]

Looks pretty close to me. My version of this chart has HP a little lower and DPR a little higher, but I think that I might have done that on purpose to make fights fast and furious.

I just checked my numbers and updated the chart. The HP went down a little an DPR went up a bit more. Pretty much like I thought and similar to what you suggested.

 

[NotAYakk]

Now, do a sanity check:

1. Split offensive and defensive level. Your level is the average of those two.
2. Map offensive and defensive CR to your offensive and defensive levels, and overall level.

It appears that your HP goes up by 8 per level and your DPR goes up by 5. I find this fishy - your damage output scales super fast.

A baseline 5e rogue with two short swords does 2d6+3-5 + 1d6*level/2, with bonus accuracy on the sneak attack dice (worth approx a 1.5x multiplier). This is 10-12 + 3.5 * 1.5 * L/2 = 10-12 + 2.625 * L. This rogue scales at half the speed your monster does.

A baseline 5e fighter using a greatsword does 2d6(8)+3-5, xTier, plus surges. This is 11-13 * (1 + 3L/20) roughly, or 11-13 + 1.95L. Again, scales at under half the speed your monsters do. If we assume 4 rounds between short rests (!) this is boosted by a factor of 6/4 (x1.5) at level 20, hitting ~80 roughly. Still, far behind

A L 20 Fighter with 16 Con has 9*20 + 4 = 184 HP with 25.5 self healing (second wind) is 209.5 HP. Blows the durability of your monsters out of the water.

Going further, a level 20 Paladin has 184 HP and a 200 HP daily LoH budget, and a L 20 cleric has insane HP available (via heals) with not much optimization.

It appears you are looking at anti-optimized durability PCs and heavily optimized DPS PCs if you claim that matches PC abilities.

At level 20, 22 AC is very good for anyone not loaded down with AC (VRare and Legendary) boosting items, or a heavy defensive build (+3 shield user with plate or capped dex and similar); but this is your baseline AC for a L 20 monster.

The DMG has HP go up by 15 per CR and DPR go up by 6.

Offensive CR is very roughly DPR/6 -1.
Defensive CR is very roughly HP/15 -4.

Your offensive Level is very roughly DPR/5.
Your defensive Level is very roughly HP/8.

(Your AC, ATK and Saves grows much faster, but for a first pass I will neglect it).

DPR ~= 5*oL
HP ~= 8*dL
DPR ~= 6oCR+6
HP ~= 15dCR+75

oCR = 5/6 oL -1
dCR = 8/15 dL -4
oL = 1.2 * oCR + 1.2
dL = 15/8 dCR +7.5

So a oCR 12 dCR 8, overall level 19 monster maps to a oL 16 dL 22.5, overall level 19.
oCR 10 dCR 10 maps to oL 13 dL 26.25 overall level 19.
oCR 8 dCR 12 maps to oL 11 dL 30 overall level 21.

If we set 2L = oL+dL and oCR=dCR=CR, we get

2L = 1.2 * CR + 1.2 + 15/8 CR +7.5
L = 1.54 CR + 4.35
CR 1 is L 6
CR 2 is L 7
CR 3 is L 9
CR 4 is L 10
CR 5 is L 12
CR 6 is L 13
CR 7 is L 15
CR 8 is L 16
CR 9 is L 18
CR 10 is L 19
CR 11 is L 21

much of this is because your HP are so low compared to monster building guidelines; 5e monsters are mostly designed as solos, so a lot of HP and not enough DPR in comparison.

 

[dave2008]

Now, do a sanity check:

I plan to! Thank you for the analysis, I will have to get into it later and get back to you with my thoughts. Here is what I used for my HP and DPR figures at level 20. I then worked back from there. Why you ask{ because I am working on level 20+ content so I care about that more!

This assumes (at level 20) each PC has:

• Magic items: 2 uncommon, 2 rare, and 2 very rare
• Max primary stat + magic item boost (+3 to attack or save DC)
• Access to feats & multiclassing

Class	Hit Points	Damage / Round
Cleric	143	69
Fighter	206	126
Rogue	143	81
Wizard	117	118
Average:	152	98

Also, at a 60% hit rate, it takes 3 rounds to take an at level opponent down.

much of this is because your HP are so low compared to monster building guidelines; 5e monsters are mostly designed as solos, so a lot of HP and not enough DPR in comparison.

Yes, I am not trying to match the DMG monster guidelines. This is one monster = 1 PC. Not 4 PCs against 1 monster.