[Prometheus] - Comments wanted

[jaerdaph]

Yes, that's very grass rootsy. But as they say, "Rome was not built in a day." With any luck, they will get done what they seek to do without making too many costly mistakes. Four years ago, there was no d20 market. And 30 years ago, there was no RPG market at all.

That's nice and uplifting and all, but it still doesn't answer the question, "why this particular logo by this particular group?" and "who is going to pay to market this logo?"

Rome wasn't built without a substantial financial investment either.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

The prometheus logo is ok as far as graphic design goes, but it says nothing about d20, open gaming, what have you. It's a total marketing reboot. In this case, I may support it, but it seems to be tilting at windmills.

The open die logo is just poor graphic design. And it's more than a total reboot, it actually deflects the user AWAY from any connection to d20. "Is it for the old Star Wars d6 system? Shadowrun? What's this d6 all about?"

There's my honest opinion, as requested.


Wulf

 

[Planesdragon]

"why this particular logo by this particular group?"

The Prometheus logo exists because the FGA's previous and more-obvious "Free20" and "Open20" logos caused objections from WotC's legal department. Plus, we like the myth, and the logo tends to "grow" on folks who see it a couple of times.

The FGA is the organization to turn to for a new logo because we're not-for-profit, we're neutral between publishers, and, to the best of my knowledge, no one else has put forth a logo.

"who is going to pay to market this logo?"

The FGA's Board Members are currently donating time and webspace to the FGA. We also will very likely be preparing informational handouts to be distributed at industry events whenever possible.

Additional direct funding for advertisments may come from dues-paying FGA members; we've been tied up getting the PCL drafted, and so haven't had a chance yet to organize the FGA and look for new members.

Beyond this, Prometheus (and, theoretically, OpenDie) will be marketed the same way that d20 was marketed--publishers will include the logo on their products, distributors and store-owners will glean the meaning from publishers (or directly from the FGA), and consumers will learn of the logo when they see it on or in books that their fellow gamers have or that they see at their FLGS.

 

[jaerdaph]

Thanks for taking the time to respond, Doug.

While I'm not entirely convinced this will work (or if it's even necessary), I *am* convinced that the FGA would be the ones to pull it off if it can.

Edit: Not that my opinion or approval means anything, other than that of "just a consumer".

Best,

 

[2d6]

Hello,

I browsed around the website. It's very visually appealing, though I found navigation to be kinda clunky, too much drill-down to information. Looks nice though and the logo itself is well done.

Just a couple of comments.

What, as a consumer, is the use of the promethius logo supposed to indicate to me? I understand that to use the logo, the work has to be compatable with one of the "approved" resource documents. Which documents are those?

As a publisher, what is the benefit to me of plastering your logo on my book? If I'm putting out a product that meets the requirements for the d20 logo, why wouldn't I just use that and milk the added benefit of that logo's "brand" awareness? Now what's to prevent WoTC from modifing the d20 license to disallow the use of other compatability logos? Now I can't have your logo and the d20 logo on my book. If I want to release a book that doesn't meet the requirements for use of the d20 logo, I can use your logo, but then I have some books with d20 logos, some with promethius logos and I could be sowing confusion among my potential customers.

Now if I wanted to say put something out under the OGL, using the SRD, I could use your mark, or I could just plaster "Compatable with third edition rules" on the book or some such ala S&SS and not have to be bound by another license.

So what's the motivation?

 

[Planesdragon]

What, as a consumer, is the use of the promethius logo supposed to indicate to me? I understand that to use the logo, the work has to be compatable with one of the "approved" resource documents. Which documents are those?

The logo is intended as an indicator of compatability. The reference documents will be the SRD, MSRD, 3.5SRD, possibly the Anime SRD, and very likely a supplemenetal document including necessary rules not found in the SRD.

As a publisher, what is the benefit to me of plastering your logo on my book? If I'm putting out a product that meets the requirements for the d20 logo, why wouldn't I just use that and milk the added benefit of that logo's "brand" awareness?

For the record, there's no conflict with using d20 and Prometheus on the same work, and we believe that there never will be--unless your work goes beyond the increasingly narrow bounds of what is permitted by the d20STL.

If your product promotes a religion, includes minatures, is software, includes "adult" content, or does just about anything that goes against Wizards of the Coast's corporate plan, they can cause a d20-branded product to be destoryed. For well-established or mainstream RPG supplement books this isn't a big concern, but for some small publishers any additional chance of having to pulp their product is an unacceptable risk.

Now what's to prevent WoTC from modifing the d20 license to disallow the use of other compatability logos?

Technically, nothing--just as, technically, nothing stops WotC from specifcally excluding companies from the d20STL.

Realisitically, however, WotC is unlikely to alter their license to prohibit Prometheus or OpenDie or similar logos, especially if we keep a clear division of meaning. Enforcing Quality Standards or prohibiting minatures or requiring declarations all had a clear fiscal result--squaishing a community-based logo from an organization that has been very friendly to Wizards in the past doesn't fit with the character of Wizards, their staff, or their parent corporation.

Now if I wanted to say put something out under the OGL, using the SRD, I could use your mark, or I could just plaster "Compatable with third edition rules" on the book or some such ala S&SS and not have to be bound by another license.

Sure you could. In fact, White Wolf could revise and order Storyteller, and release a new, third version of it under the OGL. You could also downplay the d20 logo or not use any logo at all.

We believe that a logo is the best way to indicate compatability with the rest of the network. Logos catch the eye a lot better than text ever can, and they require no context to understand. "Third Edition" only makes sense if the book is already next to other d20 / D&D books. A logo that says "compatable" makes sense no matter where your book gets shelved.