[Proposal] Combine Attack Un-Nerf

Vertexx69

Visitor
I'm confused as to how they could turn the most effective mount ability into the weakest?

How would people feel about changing it back to at-will, but with a limit to its use of once per turn? Several mounts at similar level have attacks that can also be used every round instead of just once per encounter (ie; dire boar, Rhinoceros).

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Combined Attack (while mounted by a friendly rider of Xth level
or higher; at-will, usable once per turn) ✦ Mount

When the giant lizard’s rider makes a melee attack against a target, once per turn the lizard can make a claw attack as a free action against the same target.

When the blade spider’s rider makes a melee attack, once per turn the blade spider makes a claw attack as a free action against the same target.
 

renau1g

Visitor
I'm not a fan of this proposal.

Rhino/Dire Boar gets the at-will, but only works on charge, therefore is a much narrower band. Now what the Riding Lizard & spider grants you over the Rhino is a much faster move speed (9) or the ability to climb. That would've been awesome last encounter with the dragon to climb up for one of our spellcasters.

To quote the errata "This change brings the power in line with our damage expectations"

I agree with it as otherwise it essentially doubles the attacks for a melee based PC with no restrictions. The boar/rhino must charge at least, but even with a badge of the berserker, the mount doesn't have that ability so would draw an OA when he left an enemies square, therefore you couldn't charge each attack in all liklihood and you'd be splitting up your damage, an unoptimal strategy.

I will vote NO on this proposal. Sorry Vertexx
 

Vertexx69

Visitor
Well if the power can only function once per encounter, then how about making it work until the start of the rider's next turn? This would allow the lizard or spider to match all of it's rider's attacks for 1 round of combat per encounter, and make the mounts worth having at all for melee characters. As it stands, a single extra melee attack per encounter isn't worth the price for a climb speed. the draft lizard has a climb speed for barely a 10th of the price if that's what a player is looking for.

Combined Attack (while mounted by a friendly rider of Xth level
or higher; encounter) ✦ Mount

Until the start of the rider's next turn, when the giant lizard’s rider makes a melee attack against a target, the lizard can make a claw attack as a free action against the same target.

Until the start of the rider's next turn, when the blade spider’s rider makes a melee attack, the blade spider makes a claw attack as a free action against the same target.
 

renau1g

Visitor
Aye, a draft lizard is cheaper, but it is less durable and slower than its riding counterpart.

Speed 7 vs 9; or climb 2 vs 4

All its stats are lower (AC; hp, defenses, attacks, etc) and it has the combined attack ability.

The above is OP'd (IMO & Wotc's I think) as you put that in the hands of a ranger or TWF barbarian and they can easily make 4 attacks with it, more if have a warlord who grants extra attacks, or off-turn attacks. Again, I'm going to say NO

I realize mounts are great in general, but their speed boost is the major thing for someone who's speed drops to 5 in heavy armor (6 if elf). Nearly doubling your speed is awesome for a defender, so I woudn't say they're useless.

Now compare magic items that grant a boost to speed. For heavy armor wearers there's the Battlestrider Greaves, which grant +1 to movement speed at the cost of a level 13 item. Now, it's not susceptible to attack, but it only adds 1 and takes up an item slot, whereas the riding lizard does not take the slot up and adds 4 to their speed.
 

KarinsDad

Visitor
I'm confused as to how they could turn the most effective mount ability into the weakest?
It's called game balance.

Do you think it fair that someone can simply buy a mount and get two attacks per round every single round instead of one? This is even better than Animal Companions or most Summoned Creatures. Granted, some of the higher level mounts get bonus attacks under certain circumstances like a charge, but it is still not every single round since it is difficult to charge every single round.

One of the reasons to auto-allow the updates by WotC is that the updates they make tend to be well thought out. You'll also note that WotC did this to the Blade Spider as well. Sorry, but an extra free attack every single round for the purchase price of a mount is unbalanced.

PS. One cannot use Combined Attack with a new PC here anyway since the PC is not level 6 right away. The PC has to acquire two levels to use the ability anyway.
 

Vertexx69

Visitor
That's why I suggested the Limits I proposed, either at-will but only once per turn - or - keep it once per encounter but make it usable for the entire 1 round. instead of just a single extra attack once per encounter like the current errata states.

But I have moved past this and went with a dire boar instead. I'm not talking about it anymore. Can SG lock this thread or delete it or something like that?
 

KarinsDad

Visitor
That's why I suggested the Limits I proposed, either at-will but only once per turn - or - keep it once per encounter but make it usable for the entire 1 round. instead of just a single extra attack once per encounter like the current errata states.
Once per turn is not really nerfing it too much. Sure, it's not every opportunity attack, but it would still be an extra attack every single round if the user could use it on his turn.
 

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