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Proposal: Fighter/mage/thief: quick and dirty concurrent multiclassing/gestalt rules
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<blockquote data-quote="FormerlyHemlock" data-source="post: 7022773" data-attributes="member: 6787650"><p>Okay, it looks like you're really going to make me do a level-by-level breakdown...</p><p></p><p>There's no good way to show this, but here's a couple of screenshots from a comparison:</p><p></p><p>[ATTACH]81053[/ATTACH]</p><p>[ATTACH]81054[/ATTACH]</p><p></p><p>Excel spreadsheet here: <a href="https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx/Documents/MulticlassMinionmancy.xlsx?cid=481fe781f5800d38&id=documents" target="_blank">https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx/Documents/MulticlassMinionmancy.xlsx?cid=481fe781f5800d38&id=documents</a></p><p></p><p>As you can see, they're pretty comparable. I'm not sure how meaningful "total number of options" is as a metric, since the quality of options is also improving over time, but for whatever it's worth, if you average the total number of options over the number of rows in the table (a questionable type of average, but one which I'm using here as a rough proxy for "total time at the table"), the pure necromancer comes in at 3.67 options per time-period on average, whereas the multiclass guy comes in at 3.49 options per time-period on average.</p><p></p><p>In reality the main difference between them is that the pure guy typically has more (and higher-quality) gold-focused options like Planar Binding, and the multiclass guy has a different way to use his concentration (Conjure Animals) and a different way to use Planar Binding (hag covens). Neither of them is ever actually going to max out on the total number of minions available to them, so also in reality the pure guy is going to be spending his concentration on things like Wall of Force while the multiclass guy spams Conjure Animals.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm not seeing what you're seeing in the data. There is no "half of a campaign" where the Necro/Druid is superior. The only point at which the Necro/Druid is clearly ahead is between 13,000 and 14,000 XP, when he has Conjure Animals but the pure Necro does not yet have Undead Thralls. Cry me a river, dude. </p><p></p><p>You could make any argument for the Necro/Druid being better between 28,000 and 34,000 XP because now he has Undead Thralls too, but the pure Necromancer now has 4th level spells and Animate Dead IV, which is 67% more efficient at creating undead than Animate Dead III for a Necromancer. (A 6th level Necromancer who blows all of his spell points to raise undead from scratch will have 10 skeletons and 2 spell points left; a 7th level Necromancer who blows all of his spell points to raise undead will have 24 skeletons and 2 spell points left. Then both Necromancers can take a short rest for Arcane Recovery.) In any case, I don't think it's clear that the pure Necro is behind in the 28K-34K band.</p><p></p><p>To my eye they both have a niche. You'll go Necro/Druid if you want one thing out of the game, and you'll go pure Necromancer if you want another. I could see myself playing either, even with my powergamer hat on. With my DM hat on, that means I'm happy with the balance between them.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FormerlyHemlock, post: 7022773, member: 6787650"] Okay, it looks like you're really going to make me do a level-by-level breakdown... There's no good way to show this, but here's a couple of screenshots from a comparison: [ATTACH=CONFIG]81053._xfImport[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]81054._xfImport[/ATTACH] Excel spreadsheet here: [url]https://onedrive.live.com/view.aspx/Documents/MulticlassMinionmancy.xlsx?cid=481fe781f5800d38&id=documents[/url] As you can see, they're pretty comparable. I'm not sure how meaningful "total number of options" is as a metric, since the quality of options is also improving over time, but for whatever it's worth, if you average the total number of options over the number of rows in the table (a questionable type of average, but one which I'm using here as a rough proxy for "total time at the table"), the pure necromancer comes in at 3.67 options per time-period on average, whereas the multiclass guy comes in at 3.49 options per time-period on average. In reality the main difference between them is that the pure guy typically has more (and higher-quality) gold-focused options like Planar Binding, and the multiclass guy has a different way to use his concentration (Conjure Animals) and a different way to use Planar Binding (hag covens). Neither of them is ever actually going to max out on the total number of minions available to them, so also in reality the pure guy is going to be spending his concentration on things like Wall of Force while the multiclass guy spams Conjure Animals. I'm not seeing what you're seeing in the data. There is no "half of a campaign" where the Necro/Druid is superior. The only point at which the Necro/Druid is clearly ahead is between 13,000 and 14,000 XP, when he has Conjure Animals but the pure Necro does not yet have Undead Thralls. Cry me a river, dude. You could make any argument for the Necro/Druid being better between 28,000 and 34,000 XP because now he has Undead Thralls too, but the pure Necromancer now has 4th level spells and Animate Dead IV, which is 67% more efficient at creating undead than Animate Dead III for a Necromancer. (A 6th level Necromancer who blows all of his spell points to raise undead from scratch will have 10 skeletons and 2 spell points left; a 7th level Necromancer who blows all of his spell points to raise undead will have 24 skeletons and 2 spell points left. Then both Necromancers can take a short rest for Arcane Recovery.) In any case, I don't think it's clear that the pure Necro is behind in the 28K-34K band. To my eye they both have a niche. You'll go Necro/Druid if you want one thing out of the game, and you'll go pure Necromancer if you want another. I could see myself playing either, even with my powergamer hat on. With my DM hat on, that means I'm happy with the balance between them. [/QUOTE]
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Proposal: Fighter/mage/thief: quick and dirty concurrent multiclassing/gestalt rules
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