(Proposal) Learner Prestige Class

[GnomeWorks]

Bump...

 

[GnomeWorks]

And again...

 

[Rystil Arden]

And again...

I think I scared the judges away

 

[GnomeWorks]

I think I scared the judges away

Nah, this thing's two years old. A few weeks for no activity is pretty typical at this point, IMO.

I'm still contemplating the argument. I think that increasing the slot cost of SQ abilities and increasing all talents to a full-round action are not bad fixes, and would help alleviate the problems you mentioned.

Of course, there is still the problem of using quickness and then UMDing... I can't get around that one. Of course, there is the argument that, for more effective quickness, you are giving up levels in other classes. Which I think is a fair argument - with the UMD thing, you would have to sink at least a few levels into learner to make it effective, so you're pretty much a one-trick pony at that point.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Of course, there is the argument that, for more effective quickness, you are giving up levels in other classes. Which I think is a fair argument - with the UMD thing, you would have to sink at least a few levels into learner to make it effective, so you're pretty much a one-trick pony at that point.

It is one trick, but it is a very powerful trick, which I guess is the problem. It gets worse if you imagine that he took all his lother evels in Rogue except a few away to fulfill the prerequisites, which allows him to potential throw out two Sneak Attacks from a Scorching Ray wand per round for 24d6 damage + double whatever his Sneak Attack dice are

 

[GnomeWorks]

It is one trick, but it is a very powerful trick, which I guess is the problem. It gets worse if you imagine that he took all his lother evels in Rogue except a few away to fulfill the prerequisites, which allows him to potential throw out two Sneak Attacks from a Scorching Ray wand per round for 24d6 damage + double whatever his Sneak Attack dice are

The minimum number of levels is 4, assuming the rogue in question meets the knowledge requirements. The learner is not an easy class to get into.

And as I pointed out, he would have to sink a significant number of levels into the learner to make this trick worthwhile. At that point, those levels are pretty much "wasted" - they have little bearing on what the character is actually geared to do. Their only purpose is to gain quickness, which would only last 1 round/learner level.

 

[Rystil Arden]

At that point, those levels are pretty much "wasted" - they have little bearing on what the character is actually geared to do. Their only purpose is to gain quickness, which would only last 1 round/learner level.

Well, Quickness and a bunch of other things too. And I'd hardly call it a waste for Quickness when you're a wand-wielder, since it is much better than what you would get in a base class to help your wand-wielding.

 

[GnomeWorks]

Well, Quickness and a bunch of other things too. And I'd hardly call it a waste for Quickness when you're a wand-wielder, since it is much better than what you would get in a base class to help your wand-wielding.

But the number of levels you have to sink into learner to make it worthwhile are at least mildly prohibitive. It's at least something you'd think about rather than it be a no-brainer.

 

[Rystil Arden]

But the number of levels you have to sink into learner to make it worthwhile are at least mildly prohibitive. It's at least something you'd think about rather than it be a no-brainer.

I do agree with this. It isn't a no-brainer to select this class, and it would not have been a no-brainer even back before those changes because it cuts into spell progression, and many people just don't see their character this way. It's just like if I made an overpowered bow prestige class--the people who want to play melee fighters still aren't going to take it, so it's not a no-brainer for everyone. However, the problem is when you do choose to select this class.

 

[GnomeWorks]

I do agree with this. It isn't a no-brainer to select this class, and it would not have been a no-brainer even back before those changes because it cuts into spell progression, and many people just don't see their character this way. It's just like if I made an overpowered bow prestige class--the people who want to play melee fighters still aren't going to take it, so it's not a no-brainer for everyone. However, the problem is when you do choose to select this class.

I still say that the circumstances under which you can break this class will be hard to come by. I know that's not a very good argument, but it's really the only one I can offer.