Proposal : Starting Wealth for level 2 and 3

[JoeNotCharles]

I just made up my own spreadsheet, and I get totally different results from Stringbean. At level 5, he gets 4480 for a DMG char, and 9186.4 from treasure parcels. I get 4480 for a DMG character and 4751.2 for treasure parcels. Treasure parcels are always ahead of the DMG after level 2, but not by that much.

One thing I did wrong on my first pass is that I gave level N characters the treasure parcels for level N - that's what they get awarded during level N. A character starting level N only has the treasure from level N-1. But even if your numbers from the DMG are 1 level too high, I still only get 7071.2, not 9186.4.

 

[Stringbean2142]

Huh, yeah, that's my bad. The first bloody formula was off, which snowballed on me. What I get for doing it at work, I guess. Ignore the numbers I had befoire, way higher than they should have been. JoeNotCharles or someone else, can you check this before I run it for all levels? For level 5, the math I'm using (after taking out the idiot formula blunder):

Starting GP: 100

Level 1 Parcels: 720 gp Monetary + 520 gp MI2 + 680 gp MI3 + 840 gp MI4 + 1000 gp MI5 = 3760 gp Total

Level 2 Parcels: 1040 gp Monetary + 680 gp MI3 + 840 gp MI4 + 1000 gp MI5 + 1800 gp MI6 = 5360 gp Total

Level 3 Parcels: 1355 gp Monetary + 840 gp MI4 + 1000 gp MI5 + 1800 MI6 + 2600 gp MI7 = 7595 gp Total

Level 4 Parcels: 1680 gp Monetary + 1000 gp MI5 + 1800 gp MI6 + 2600 gp MI7 + 3400 gp MI8 = 10480 gp Total

Totals for Parcels: 3760 + 5360 + 7595 + 10480 = 27195 gp

Totals for Player at Level 5: (27195 / 5) + 100 = 5539 gp

After 20% Retirement Fee, Level 5: 5539 * 0.8 = 4431.2

That's still off of JoeNotCharles's numbers by 320 gp. What am I missing? Other than a functioning brain, at least...

 

[JoeNotCharles]

320 gp is the price of a level 1 magic item, I believe... (Or was it 360?) That could be significant...

 

[covaithe]

It is 360.

 

[Stringbean2142]

I thought that at first, too, but there's no level 1 magic items in the parcels. If you put the 20% back, the amount I'm off before the fee is 400 gp. So it looks like I'm 100 gp less than JoeNotCharles per level of treasure. So here's what the DMG gives, what I get, and what I think JoeNotCharles gets (adding that 100 per level of treasure in) at the various milestones.

Level 5: 4480 DMG, 4431.8 My Calc, 4751.2 JNC Calc
Level 10: 22400 DMG, 28431.2 My Calc, 29151.2 JNC Est. Calc
Level 15: 112000 DMG, 148431.2 My Calc, 149551.2 JNC Est. Calc
Level 20: 560000 DMG, 748431.2 My Calc, 749951.2 JNC Est. Calc
Level 25: 2800000 DMG, 3748431.2 My Calc, 3750351.2 JNC Est. Calc

Now those numbers are a lot closer (amazing what happens when I don't compound the rewards with interest!). Still, there is a widening between my calcs and the DMG method values. I'd want someone to confirm those numbers before I trusted them completely, but it's using the same method I used with the level 5 calculation shown above. And I'm just guessing on the reason my numbers are off from JoeNotCharles's; if it's something else causing it, those last numbers will be very different.

 

[JoeNotCharles]

Ah, I'm including the 100 gp for a starting character in the 1st-level wealth. (No, wait, if I used that but you didn't, you should be off by 100 total, not 100 per level. Maybe I accidentally added it every level...)

 

[Stringbean2142]

I added it once after splitting the parcels by five (because at first I had made the mistake of adding it each level), but if you added it every level that would be four extra levels at level 5, which matches the differences perfectly. Not that it matters that much in the long run; even if you add 100 gp each level through 30 levels, you're still only 3,000 gp up. Honestly, at level 30 if I'm still worrying about 3,000 gp when my total wealth is in the millions, there's something off...

As a bonus, that may be the most times I've used the word "level" in a single paragraph.

At any rate, looking at the spread, by level 10 you'd be ahead of the DMG method of wealth calculation by 6,031.2 gp. I don't have my books or my spreadsheet at hand, but that's an extra magical item of a not-inconsequential level at that point. Maybe level 7 or 8? You'd have to check the books for the exact level. So if you adopt this method of character generation from retired/dead characters at all levels, the new characters will have a leg up on the straight-through adventurers for sure once things reach late heroic tier.

 

[JoeNotCharles]

Ok, I checked, and I was adding the 100 at every level Here's my spreadsheet if anyone wants to look. (I couldn't make the formulas visible without letting everyone edit it, so please don't screw it up. I did save a private backup, though.)

Google Docs

At level 2, the DMG gives 125% more than the treasure parcels do (that's 125% more than it, not 125% of it, so 2.25 times as much). At level 3 it gives 33% more. At level 4, it gives 7% less. For levels 5 to 8, it gives 20-25% less, then it jumps up to 30-40% less and keeps bouncing around that until level 30.

So what exactly is the proposal again?

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

The proposal is we use this nice table for starting wealth!

 

[JoeNotCharles]

Which column, exactly?

I really like the idea of using the treasure parcels for both time gold and starting wealth, but I've lost track of whether the 80% penalty was for retiring characters but not time gold, or vice versa, or both, or what. And I think the 80% was sort of pulled out of a hat - what's the reason for it, and is that the right amount?