Ian O'Rourke
First Post
Would these spells automatically stop Charm Person?
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Protection from Good/Evil
- Thread starter Ian O'Rourke
- Start date
Elder-Basilisk
First Post
No. They block telepathy thereby preventing the exercise (but not the establishment of) Domination. They do nothing to prevent plain old charm person (except for granting a +2 resistance bonus to the save if it is cast by someone of the opposite alignment).
Ian O'Rourke
First Post
I see. Is there anyway to stop this spell from working?
Elder-Basilisk
First Post
A way to stop Charm Person from working? Are you a DM or a player wanting to know this?
The best way is to get a good will save. Resistance, Protection From Evil, Cloaks of Resistance, Iron Will, etc. are good ways to do this. If you're the DM, remembering to apply the +4 bonus to the save if the caster or the caster's friends are threatening or in combat with the target or the target's friends is another way.
A long term charm would be subject to Dispel Magic as well.
The next best way is to be Lawful Good (either part of that is helpful). Being charmed makes you think of a person as a good friend. It doesn't make you forget about your old friends. If the evil sorceress charms a paladin, he won't turn on his companions just because she's his friend and she asked him to. In fact, the primary change is that he'll probably switch to subdual damage and be nice to her as he brings her back to town for her trial and execution. After all, she's an evil sorceress who committed crimes and needs to be brought to justice. Even though the paladin now thinks of her as a friend--well, if his real friend committed those crimes, the paladin would capture her and bring her in too. Lawful evil characters might turn on their companions (useful tools) for a real friend, but they tend to be inflexible in their duties and their loyalties. A Lawful evil priest of Hextor charmed by the good wizard might say something like "I know that you're my friend but I am compelled by a duty higher than friendship. I will not let you go." Chaotic Good characters also have some protection. A chaotic character charmed by the evil sorceress might decide that it's an unjust law that condemns his close friend and spring her so that she could start her life over again, abandoning her evil ways. However, the chaotic Good charater is unlikely to turn on his companions for her.
In fact, remembering who the charmed character is and what they want is probably the best way for characters to protect themselves against charms. Also remembering precisely how their attitudes are changed helps too. They consider the caster a good friend. Nothing more, nothing less. They don't change their opinions about the caster's friends. And they'll treat the caster like they would treat a friend. Did the Evil Villain just sacrifice his best friend to open a portal to hell? Well then, if the PC who charmed him tries to stop him, he'll probably get killed too. Being a real friend didn't save the other guy; why should it save the PC who charmed him? On the other hand, if the bard charms an orc chief in a battle, the orc might order his men to take the bard alive and keep him prisoner while he decides how to save his friend without losing face. (And the Bard hopes that he figures that out before the charm spell wears off).
The best way is to get a good will save. Resistance, Protection From Evil, Cloaks of Resistance, Iron Will, etc. are good ways to do this. If you're the DM, remembering to apply the +4 bonus to the save if the caster or the caster's friends are threatening or in combat with the target or the target's friends is another way.
A long term charm would be subject to Dispel Magic as well.
The next best way is to be Lawful Good (either part of that is helpful). Being charmed makes you think of a person as a good friend. It doesn't make you forget about your old friends. If the evil sorceress charms a paladin, he won't turn on his companions just because she's his friend and she asked him to. In fact, the primary change is that he'll probably switch to subdual damage and be nice to her as he brings her back to town for her trial and execution. After all, she's an evil sorceress who committed crimes and needs to be brought to justice. Even though the paladin now thinks of her as a friend--well, if his real friend committed those crimes, the paladin would capture her and bring her in too. Lawful evil characters might turn on their companions (useful tools) for a real friend, but they tend to be inflexible in their duties and their loyalties. A Lawful evil priest of Hextor charmed by the good wizard might say something like "I know that you're my friend but I am compelled by a duty higher than friendship. I will not let you go." Chaotic Good characters also have some protection. A chaotic character charmed by the evil sorceress might decide that it's an unjust law that condemns his close friend and spring her so that she could start her life over again, abandoning her evil ways. However, the chaotic Good charater is unlikely to turn on his companions for her.
In fact, remembering who the charmed character is and what they want is probably the best way for characters to protect themselves against charms. Also remembering precisely how their attitudes are changed helps too. They consider the caster a good friend. Nothing more, nothing less. They don't change their opinions about the caster's friends. And they'll treat the caster like they would treat a friend. Did the Evil Villain just sacrifice his best friend to open a portal to hell? Well then, if the PC who charmed him tries to stop him, he'll probably get killed too. Being a real friend didn't save the other guy; why should it save the PC who charmed him? On the other hand, if the bard charms an orc chief in a battle, the orc might order his men to take the bard alive and keep him prisoner while he decides how to save his friend without losing face. (And the Bard hopes that he figures that out before the charm spell wears off).
jeffhartsell
First Post
This spell does block Charm Person. See the MainFAQv11222002.zip available at www.wizards.com
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
I hate disagreeing with FAQ entries
But I disagree with this one.Domination, sure. Not Suggestion, great. But Charm Person? What's the rationale for saying that Charm Person is more of an ongoing control than Quest?
Bah, I say.
-Hyp.
Domination, sure. Not Suggestion, great. But Charm Person? What's the rationale for saying that Charm Person is more of an ongoing control than Quest?
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I think the spirit of the ruling is related to how often commands can be given.
If you can only give a single command at the moment the spell is cast...even if the subject is forced to obey that command for an extended duration (such as Geas/Quest or Hold Person)...then it's not subject to the Protection from [Alignment] effects.
Spells like Dominate and Charm allow as many commands to be issued as the caster likes throughout the duration of the spell effect. That appears to be the definition of "ongoing control," according to the FAQ.
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I think the spirit of the ruling is related to how often commands can be given.
If you can only give a single command at the moment the spell is cast...even if the subject is forced to obey that command for an extended duration (such as Geas/Quest or Hold Person)...then it's not subject to the Protection from [Alignment] effects.
Spells like Dominate and Charm allow as many commands to be issued as the caster likes throughout the duration of the spell effect. That appears to be the definition of "ongoing control," according to the FAQ.
Hypersmurf
Moderatarrrrh...
Charm Person as written isn't about commands or control, though.
-Hyp.
Not explicitly, no, but under the influence of a Charm spell, the target becomes highly receptive to the desires of the caster. Thus, requests will typically be honored, unless there are compelling reasons not to honor them.
The point I believe is that the caster of the Charm is not limited to a single desire that is set at the time of casting.
You don't cast Charm on a monster and say, "Stop attacking my friends," and then that's all it'll do for you. Oh no. You can then ask it to do other things as well. Domination is similar, but where with Charm the subject still has some ability to interpret the requests and fulfill them as it sees fit, with Domination its will is utterly subsumed.
Compare this to a Geas, which will enforce a single stated command, set at the time of casting. There are far fewer limitations on what the command can be...but as they say, in the end, there can be only one.
The point I believe is that the caster of the Charm is not limited to a single desire that is set at the time of casting.
You don't cast Charm on a monster and say, "Stop attacking my friends," and then that's all it'll do for you. Oh no. You can then ask it to do other things as well. Domination is similar, but where with Charm the subject still has some ability to interpret the requests and fulfill them as it sees fit, with Domination its will is utterly subsumed.
Compare this to a Geas, which will enforce a single stated command, set at the time of casting. There are far fewer limitations on what the command can be...but as they say, in the end, there can be only one.
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