PRPG Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Summoner and Witch

[Hunter In Darkness]

Barding. Did you forget animals *(and non humanoids) can wear armor.
It is listed in the PSRD.
Look under Mounts and related gear section in the equipment link.

Save to use barding the mount must have the armor feat or it suffers like anyone else
and 2 the man who created the class, and his official ruling is they do not have the ability to wear armor of any type. So by the rules no you may not use any type of armor on it

 

[Zurai]

Barding. Did you forget animals *(and non humanoids) can wear armor.
It is listed in the PSRD.
Look under Mounts and related gear section in the equipment link.

As Hunter said, the ruling isn't that they lose the ability to spend evolution points on armor proficiencies (they do, but that's a side effect). The ruling is that they cannot wear armor. They also can't wear bracers, so no bracers of armor.

 

[Starbuck_II]

You guys missed my edit?

I wish that it was linked to the thread where he said this. I had to go to the forums and read it.

So the reason is they can't wear armor because their body can't wear it. They apparently shift too much.
(which means they really look like a freak. Shifting forms every couple moments).
Although, I guess if you polymorphed them they could wear it since it is no longer their body but the new forms.
I mean, they'd lose all those evolution abilities (other than Spell-like and stuff like that), but then they could wear armor.

 

[Sylrae]

After more reflection, I think the major flaw with the summoner is that the class doesn't have to play a card from the battle deck when summoning a monster.
Either that, or it should store specific monsters in magical containers.

you wish to play a summoner, there is an option for wizards to specialize in a school called "Conjuration." Try that out, I hear that's what they do. If that's not good enough, build a prestige class based on the SLA that you like and call it a day.

Conjuration wizards are pretty fail summoners. They’re not specialized enough. The only decent summoner class I've seen is the Malconvoker PrC, which was based on manipulating demons into doing good things. It was only ‘OK’.

It is a tricky balancing act.
As is, the Eidolon looks too powerful for any combination to work.

Just for consideration, imagine a class that is exactly the commoner, except he has the ability to summon a permanent fighter of equivalent level. Cleary this is no different than giving a fighter a permanent commoner pet and is more powerful than a fighter without.

So the Eidolon needs to be some measure clearly less potent than a fighter just to exist in the first place alongside a base class with zero additional features above those possessed by a commoner.

What if the Eidoloneer (Because it’s clearly not a Summoner if the emphasis is on being an (albeit really cool) Pokémon trainer). What if the Eidoloneer could only make move and swift and free actions while the Eidolon was out, and the Eidolon got full actions. To make a Standard or full-round action, the Eidoloneer has to drop the Eidolon (Free Action). Resummoning the Eidolon is Standard Action. The Eidolon shares Initiative with the Eidoloneer. As Ruemere suggested, his other abilities would consist of abilities such as

Extradimensional security expert/hacker, tamer of outsiders, explorers of far realms.

On the other hand, if you take a commoner and let him summon two fighters of half his level, he will progress from a bit over powered to steadily more and more under-powered as he goes along.

Hmm. What if said two fighters gained a bonus to “To Hit”: A bonus to the dice rolls for BAB, without the extra attacks, which makes them hit as though they were both fighters of ¾ level or something, but in all other ways are only half? If you summoned multiple casters, they’d get a bonus as though they were higher caster level, possibly even full casters, which would only apply to things such as DCs. Maybe both get smaller bonuses to saves or AC. Just a thought on how to have more of the small ones without them becoming totally useless.

There's probably a fix for that. Another idea I had (not as good as the battle deck or magical container idea ) is that the summoner's "consciousness" is split between himself and his eidolon. The summoner suffers a -X penalty to this, that, and the other thing any round the eidolon functions at full capacity. The eidolon suffers this same penalty any round the summoner functions at full capacity.

I'm not sure what I mean by "capacity."

This is a pretty good idea also.

 

[EroGaki]

What if the Eidoloneer (Because it’s clearly not a Summoner if the emphasis is on being an (albeit really cool) Pokémon trainer).

My thoughts exactly. If the focus of the class is on a pet and it only has so-so summoning abilities, than the name should change. Eidoloneer is great if you look at it for what it is: someone who controls an eidolon. With the recent change, it is a sucky summoner.

 

[Zurai]

My thoughts exactly. If the focus of the class is on a pet and it only has so-so summoning abilities, than the name should change. Eidoloneer is great if you look at it for what it is: someone who controls an eidolon. With the recent change, it is a sucky summoner.

Tell that to Yuna. Or Rydia. As a matter of fact, if you asked anyone outside of D&D what a "Summoner" is, I'd bet you'd be far more likely to get a response that closely resembles the "Eidoloneer" rather than the "ISpamMonsterser", as it's far, far more prevalent in popular culture and mythology.

 

[Sylrae]

Tell that to Yuna. Or Rydia. As a matter of fact, if you asked anyone outside of D&D what a "Summoner" is, I'd bet you'd be far more likely to get a response that closely resembles the "Eidoloneer" rather than the "ISpamMonsterser", as it's far, far more prevalent in popular culture and mythology.

You may get some responses that are final fantasy-esque. You'll likely get more 'Summoner'esque responses where the summoner uses a summoning circle and summons up demons, ala planar binding, and gets it to fight for him, if he can control it.

As for Final Fantasy-esque type responses, there are two kinds.

1) Summon spells are more like cool flavored evocations, they show up, do a single powerful attack, then dissipate.
2) Summon spells summon a large monster, and make you (and oddly, your friends) disappear, until it is called back or defeated, a-la pokemon.

You'll notice in all of these cases, the Summoner has Multiple things they summon in the same sort of way.

Yuna is a summoner, albeit one whose personality I found grating. Yuna summons more than a single creature (She can summon something besides ifrit), she gains more creatures she can summon over the course of the game. Likewise for summoners in FF4,5,6,7,fft,ff8,and ff9. So this is not like a Final Fantasy summoner either.

It's like a specialized pokemon trainer who only has one pokemon. But the pokemon is really freaking cool.

Hence Eidoloneer.

 

[EroGaki]

Tell that to Yuna. Or Rydia. As a matter of fact, if you asked anyone outside of D&D what a "Summoner" is, I'd bet you'd be far more likely to get a response that closely resembles the "Eidoloneer" rather than the "ISpamMonsterser", as it's far, far more prevalent in popular culture and mythology.

And you know what else Yuna and Rydia had? Actually powerful spellcasting at their disposal. Yuna was a competent white mage, and Rydia had white and black magic. All the Eidonloneer has is his pet, and less spells known than a sorcerer. If a sorcerer can cast know more spells and cast more often than the Eidoloneer, than the eidoloneer isn't much of a spell caster.

And as for the "ISpamMonsterer," Yuna had multiple summons throughout the game. When she was done with one, she had another. As did Rydia. There's your summon monster right there. The Eidoloneer has one pet, a pet that will more than likely nerfed beyond all usefulness by the relentless horde of gibbering mouthers (guess who they are) who cry "broken" at anything they dislike, without playtesting it. Just like what happened.

 

[EroGaki]

You may get some responses that are final fantasy-esque. You'll likely get more 'Summoner'esque responses where the summoner uses a summoning circle and summons up demons, ala planar binding, and gets it to fight for him, if he can control it.

As for Final Fantasy-esque type responses, there are two kinds.

1) Summon spells are more like cool flavored evocations, they show up, do a single powerful attack, then dissipate.
2) Summon spells summon a large monster, and make you (and oddly, your friends) disappear, until it is called back or defeated, a-la pokemon.

You'll notice in all of these cases, the Summoner has Multiple things they summon in the same sort of way.

Yuna is a summoner, albeit one whose personality I found grating. Yuna summons more than a single creature (She can summon something besides ifrit), she gains more creatures she can summon over the course of the game. Likewise for summoners in FF4,5,6,7,fft,ff8,and ff9. So this is not like a Final Fantasy summoner either.

It's like a specialized pokemon trainer who only has one pokemon. But the pokemon is really freaking cool.

Hence Eidoloneer.

Thank you.

 

[Sylrae]

*bows*
I couldn't leave the Yuna argument without at least giving some kind of response.
This character is nothing like either of those.

I'll say this: The character is based on a pretty awesome concept.
But he's a pretty weak caster.

The Eidolon is kickass. But not in line with a 'summoner' concept. (As he's really your only summon)

He's like a Pokemon trainer, with one highly customizable, totally F***ing awesome Pokemon. Who eventually turns into a copy of said pokemon.

I'd say Drop the now crappy Summon SLAs, and replace with Mobility SLAs. Give him Expedious Retreat, Teleport, and Gate over the course of the levels as SLAs. Other things as Necessary. Possibly a Slow, or Invisibility. Just some run-away abilities.

Now we need some people to design a Pikachu Eidolon and my point will be made. Of course, eventually this pikachu will evolve into some kind of maneating awesome beast, but that's how pokemon should have been anyways.