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PRPG Advanced Player's Guide Playtest: Summoner and Witch
- Thread starter Eridanis
- Start date
Starbuck_II
First Post
For a beggining: I'd suggest pounce, claw attack, etc.
Basically, make the eidolon a bear/lion type creature (quadraped).
It would be best if they gave example eidolons of various levels and type in the book and one of eah type (so level 1: Quad, bi, and Serpent, Level 5 one of each, etc). This would help beggining make on the fly versions until they decided to read the book and work out combinations.
BryonD
Hero
Agreed. I'm completely on board with having good starter stuff out there. But I hate the oft-repeated idea that everything should be shackled to beginner level.That's why it's called the 'Advanced Player's Guide!'
Zurai
First Post
Currently, the base form cannot be changed.
fuindordm
Adventurer
I just read through the new classes and the summoner is certainly one I'd like to try out in play.
I too think it fills a role that has been neglected too long, and I think the specialist wizard doesn't cut it. The summon monster spells simply don't last long enough for you to use the creatures in any way but combat, generally speaking, and that's too bad. You have planar ally for long-term service, but it takes a long time to get to it and there's no middle ground.
One problem with the Eidolon is that it's a bit too much like Astral Construct--it comes entirely out of the player's mind, and it's not rooted in the game world. What is the eidolon, really? Is it a monster from the collective unconscious, completely under the summoner's control? Is it an independent entity and ally? If the latter, what does it get out of the arrangement? I'm not saying that the player shouldn't get to build the eidolon--that's a fun aspect of the class--but that the character should know the answers to these questions and that these answers should have an impact on the class. Perhaps in addition to the choice of "form", they should choose the eidolon's source of power.
To address both problems (or what I perceive as problems; YMMV), consider the following:
The eidolon is an independent patron, capable of manifesting an avatar through its bond with the summoner. This means that while it is closely allied and effectively under the player's control, it also has its own goals and agenda that may create interesting conflict from time to time. (Think 'intelligent weapon' rather than 'willing slave')
The other thing the eidolon does is help the summoner form specific relationships with extraplanar creatures capable of being summoned. The summoner can choose one specific creature every other level (for example, Leo the celestial lion) that they can call with a Summon Monster spell of the appropriate level. This creature will remain for 1 minute per level rather than 1 round per level, or perhaps even longer, although it still returns after being reduced to zero HP or performing a major service. The Summon Monster spells can still be used to call any creature on the list, but only Leo will stick around for longer than usual. If Leo is reduced to zero HP, he can't be called back for a few days.
For extra immersion, require the player to match the alignment of the eidolon with the alignment of the named summons--no more than one step difference in any direction.
Ben
I too think it fills a role that has been neglected too long, and I think the specialist wizard doesn't cut it. The summon monster spells simply don't last long enough for you to use the creatures in any way but combat, generally speaking, and that's too bad. You have planar ally for long-term service, but it takes a long time to get to it and there's no middle ground.
One problem with the Eidolon is that it's a bit too much like Astral Construct--it comes entirely out of the player's mind, and it's not rooted in the game world. What is the eidolon, really? Is it a monster from the collective unconscious, completely under the summoner's control? Is it an independent entity and ally? If the latter, what does it get out of the arrangement? I'm not saying that the player shouldn't get to build the eidolon--that's a fun aspect of the class--but that the character should know the answers to these questions and that these answers should have an impact on the class. Perhaps in addition to the choice of "form", they should choose the eidolon's source of power.
To address both problems (or what I perceive as problems; YMMV), consider the following:
The eidolon is an independent patron, capable of manifesting an avatar through its bond with the summoner. This means that while it is closely allied and effectively under the player's control, it also has its own goals and agenda that may create interesting conflict from time to time. (Think 'intelligent weapon' rather than 'willing slave')
The other thing the eidolon does is help the summoner form specific relationships with extraplanar creatures capable of being summoned. The summoner can choose one specific creature every other level (for example, Leo the celestial lion) that they can call with a Summon Monster spell of the appropriate level. This creature will remain for 1 minute per level rather than 1 round per level, or perhaps even longer, although it still returns after being reduced to zero HP or performing a major service. The Summon Monster spells can still be used to call any creature on the list, but only Leo will stick around for longer than usual. If Leo is reduced to zero HP, he can't be called back for a few days.
For extra immersion, require the player to match the alignment of the eidolon with the alignment of the named summons--no more than one step difference in any direction.
Ben
Maidhc O Casain
Na Bith Mo Riocht Tá!
I think fuindordm (Ben) wins! These excellent (IMHO) suggestions add tons of flavor to an already flavorful class and make the summon spells relevant again.
Last edited:
TheAuldGrump
First Post
*BLINK*
You may want to post that on the Paizo boards, if you haven't already. It sounds very cool to me.
The Auld Grump, reminds me a bit of the WotC Remnants.
ancientvaults
Explorer
Call me cruel, but I am letting a player run a Summoner but with a twist. The eidolon will be more like a tulpa and at each evolution it will strain to be free and independent of the summoner. If it gets the chance to break free it will be an independent creature, a thought-form made manifest in physical form and under its own control.
Such a creature would long to become a power in its own right and would strive to evolve through its own actions.
If the eidolon breaks free a summoner may conjure another, but there will always be a slight chance of the creature breaking free and becoming a creature under its own power as the new one evolves.
This throws in a little unpredictability as I find the class too stable considering all of the summoning and conjuring of creatures. Magic should be dangerous and it should backlash every so often.
Such a creature would long to become a power in its own right and would strive to evolve through its own actions.
If the eidolon breaks free a summoner may conjure another, but there will always be a slight chance of the creature breaking free and becoming a creature under its own power as the new one evolves.
This throws in a little unpredictability as I find the class too stable considering all of the summoning and conjuring of creatures. Magic should be dangerous and it should backlash every so often.
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