[Psionics] Full support?

[Psion]

As mentioned earlier, Eberron, or at least the continent of Khorvaire (which the campaign setting really focuses on), isn't really driven by psionics. It's there, but the world does not revolve around it. Khorvaire revolves around the houses, the politics, and magic

It does not need to "revolve around psionics" to have some psionic NPCs.

 

[starkad]

A couple of thoughts:

First - I for one, am very glad they didn't require psionics. I have always, and probably will always, hate psionics. I even gave them a go in 3.0 and 3.5, but I frankly just don't like them, and neither does my group. Kudos to WotC for not requiring their use.

Second - This is a campaign sourcebook. This is not a "this is how you must do things" book. If you don't like that Eberron doesn't have "full" psionics support you are encouraged, if not expected, to alter the world to your taste. Forcing full stream psionics use wouldn't be all that difficult. They give you the groundwork, just advance their timelines a bit, and house rule it.

Third - Not everyone likes the exact same things. The same person doesn't even like the same things all the time. Putting in sections of a world, when you are fully cognizant of the fact that psionics is not universally accepted, is only a sound business decision. When the day ends, our campaigns sputter out or live into infamy, WotC will still be a business, and they need to make cash.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Good points by all. My primary complaint, however, is precisely the middle-ground approach that we get. Supporters on this thread paint it as a feature ("It's easily removed!"), while I see it as a bug ("It's too thinly-sketched to be of any use!").

I wouldn't say that, just having read PART of the book and some of the threads here, I can say I have all sorts of ideas for a psionic campaign in Eberron. It isn't spelled out, no. But, then again, I understand that all of the psionic concentration isn't on the continent where the "main" story of Eberron takes place.

It's sort of like saying that there is no japanese culture on earth because a book concentrating on North America didn't mention them very much. Which is to say, the book mentioned Japan, mentioned a common profession of the Japanese and some notes about how Japan is different than North America. But it didn't go into detail, because the book is not about Japan.

So, there IS a psionic society on the planet, where everything in the XPH is available. People from it DO in fact visit the main continent, and there is nothing stopping you from setting a campaign on the other continent and playing almost entirely a psionic campaign.

What more SUPPORT do you need? They didn't mention that the guy who lives at 353 Main Street in Sharn is a magewright either. Doesn't mean he isn't. I think that having a writeup of Psion, an example NPC, a race that uses psionics, and a writeup of a CONTINENT where there are a lot of Psionic beings IS support. Any further and it would go from being a high magic world to a psionic world.

Majoru Oakheart

 

[Dave Turner]

I understand the replies to my original post and I think they're perfectly valid points. I've since softened my stance regarding psionics and Eberron. It's a marketing decision and a style decision which I simply don't agree with. It doesn't kill Eberron for me.

Some points, however, deserve particular mention:

Second - This is a campaign sourcebook. This is not a "this is how you must do things" book. If you don't like that Eberron doesn't have "full" psionics support you are encouraged, if not expected, to alter the world to your taste. Forcing full stream psionics use wouldn't be all that difficult. They give you the groundwork, just advance their timelines a bit, and house rule it.

Again, this is a double-edged sword. Why not err on the side of more psionic material rather than less and encourage folks to cut the psionics out rather than adding it in? Both are sensible approaches. EDIT: Yes, I understand and concede that WotC might not want to give the perception that someone must buy the XPH to play in Eberron. That doesn't mean that you couldn't include plenty of non-mechanical setting information about psionics that a DM could house-rule away, as the anti-psionics crowd is quick to point out when defending the lack of psionic support.

But what is the pro-psionic player or DM to do with the scant material provided? The whole point of buying a corebook and setting is so that you don't have to do the conceptual groundwork of a campaign yourself. A specific psionic race is introduced, but given significantly less support than the other new races. If you're going to include a new psionic race, then give it the support it deserves. Shifters and warforged have specific feats to support them in the corebook. Where are the kalashtar or psionic feats? They aren't there because the book gives lip service to psionics, which is the traditional D&D/TSR/WotC approach that is long overdue for a change.

Why devote space to psionic races, classes, and magic items if you're going to abandon the setting material that gives them their context? This is core of the reason why I think Eberron is psionically flawed. Sure, we have enough token "psionic crunch" to ward off any obvious charges of ignoring psionics. But the meat of the Eberron book is the setting and it is virtually psionics-free.

What more SUPPORT do you need? They didn't mention that the guy who lives at 353 Main Street in Sharn is a magewright either. Doesn't mean he isn't. I think that having a writeup of Psion, an example NPC, a race that uses psionics, and a writeup of a CONTINENT where there are a lot of Psionic beings IS support. Any further and it would go from being a high magic world to a psionic world.

Just as Psion mentioned, adding in more than ONE psionic NPC doesn't suddenly make Eberron a psionic world. Psions are explicitly mentioned in the Character Classes section, complete with iconic PC. I'm sure that there are at least a dozen examples of every class listed in the Character Classes section, except the psion. You don't have to be a fan of the XPH to realize that there's some inconsistency there.

Further, the writeup of the psionic continent is so threadbare as to be useless. Sure, I can make up my own material, but, again, that's not why I buy a published campaign setting.

The integration of psionics into Eberron is tentative, half-hearted, and wishy-washy. The scant space given to psionics is not deep enough to use without significant DM and player input. It should have been left out entirely and contained in its own supplement. The space could have been better used on other aspects of the setting. The unfortunate consequence of the token psionic presence is to highlight exactly how flimsy and tacked-on psionics is to Eberron.

 

[~Johnny~]

I agree that the book could have used more psionic information. But they were already forced to cut a lot, and as Keith has explained, they wanted to focus on content that would be useful for everyone. Also, psionics is kind of a polarizing subject; some people love it, other hate it. WotC might just want to spend more time developing the world before fleshing out psionics, so people don't get the impression that Eberron is all about psionics.

I think the smartest way for WotC to handle psionics in Eberron would be to release a Sarlona regional sourcebook that expands the known world while providing psionic-specific crunch. I would expect that to be popular both among Eberron fans and among psionics fans in general.

The integration of psionics into Eberron is tentative, half-hearted, and wishy-washy. The scant space given to psionics is not deep enough to use without significant DM and player input. It should have been left out entirely and contained in its own supplement. The space could have been better used on other aspects of the setting. The unfortunate consequence of the token psionic presence is to highlight exactly how flimsy and tacked-on psionics is to Eberron.

I disagree. I think by establishing a psionic race and continent, the Eberron campaign setting provided a foothold for psionics in the setting, making it a part of the world from the beginning, giving them a chance to explore it in more detail later.

Argonnessen and Xen'drik, two of the most important regions of the world, received no more explanation than Sarlona. That's because the CSB could only tackle so much, and it focused on Khorvaire. Right now, the book does a great job of providing a place for psionic characters in Khorvarie: the mysterious outsider.

So now we just have to be patient. In the meantime, you may want to check out these "Designer Notes" from Keith Baker about psionic-related subjects in Eberron.

http://www.coveworld.net/eberron/development.html#pressure-to-use-xph
http://www.coveworld.net/eberron/world.html#psionics
http://www.coveworld.net/eberron/world.html#sarlona
http://www.coveworld.net/eberron/world.html#kalashtar
http://www.coveworld.net/eberron/world.html#dal_quor
http://www.coveworld.net/eberron/rules.html#kalashtar-rules

 

[Von Ether]

I must have read a different book because I am very tempted to run a psionics campaign based of the info I read, and the reason humanity settled Kohvare is because the Inspired where conquering the "Old World."

The Inspried just scream G'ould to me, which gives me plenty of cues on how to set up the Inspired as campaign villians. I have already thought that the Inspired should have "thrones" where they retire for the night. The throne keeps the human host in stasis as the Quor takes its nightly rest.

My personal twist, though, is that I plan to use GR's Psychic Handbook. No offence, but I felt burned after getting the first Psionic Handbook and then discovering that whole book was so off base that the XPH had to make some major changes. I admit that with Action Points, I'll have to go with some optional rules as compared to the default system.

 

[Kesh]

I've actually read complaints that there's so much psionics stuff that it's "useless" to people who don't use psionics.

 

[Kesh]

 

[Robbert Raets]

You wouldn't like what I did with Eberron & the Expanded Psionics Handbook the other day....

But your point is moot, anyway. Saying that the ECS isn't supportive and/or explanatory enough concerning Psionics is a lot like saying that it doesn't state the role/use of the DMG prestige classes clearly enough. Fact is, there's more psions and psionic monsters than duelists or mystic theurges in the book.

 

[Estlor]

It's all about economics. If you're given 320 pages to work with, you don't have the luxury of putting in dozens of pages of support for things your primary audience doesn't have. Case in point: the core rulebooks will outsell any supplement hands down; likewise, the CS will outsell any future supplement. Not everyone who buys the XPH will buy Eberron CS and vice versa. Therefore, from a sales perspective, you get the most bang for your buck by limiting supplemental material.

Realistically, psionics in 3.5e is a fringe item at best. As such, the best you can hope for from WotC is fringe support. The fact that they have a race, monsters, and a continent set aside for psionics shows that (eventually) they'll commit to more than that.