Psionics in a low magic world?

[Alchemist]

With all the discussion about scaling back from the standard medium-high magic that the core books assume I began wondering what effect this would have on Psionics. I have a deep interest in low(er) magic D&D games and I also want to incorporate the psion and psionic warrior into my world when we play.

What, if any, changes would need to be made to psionics to make them compatible? I know that psionics are generally underpowered (or at least considered to be when stacked against battle-mages and buff-clerics) as they stand, would they be on par in a low magic world?

As an aside, I have Mindscapes and it is fantastic. I am excited to use it.

 

[Tzarevitch]

If you are looking for a low-magic feel, it really needs to be low psionics as well. In 3e, functionally psionics=magic under a different name, even if you use the "psionics are different" model.
Believe me, I tried in a Dark Sun campaign.

Another thing I have learned is that psionics are NOT underpowered by any means if you use them correctly. I don't know where that idea keeps coming from but it isn't true. You don't know many powers many of them are VERY powerful and the metapsionics-for-points system makes psions uncannily flexible in how they use their power allotment. (Again I learned this from the Dark Sun e3 campaign I ran.)

Tzarevitch

 

[Staffan]

Another thing I have learned is that psionics are NOT underpowered by any means if you use them correctly. I don't know where that idea keeps coming from but it isn't true.

Not to turn this into a "psionics sucks!" thread, but the main flaws perceived with psionics are:

• Multiple ability dependency.
• Powers known on par with a sorcerer's spells known, but powers per day less than a wizard's.
• Sucky damage-dealing powers.
• Psionic combat being much more of a disadvantage than an advantage.

 

[Alchemist]

Not to turn this into a "psionics sucks!" thread, but the main flaws perceived with psionics are:

• Multiple ability dependency.
• Powers known on par with a sorcerer's spells known, but powers per day less than a wizard's.
• Sucky damage-dealing powers.
• Psionic combat being much more of a disadvantage than an advantage.

No highjacking!

Many of these issues are dealt with, at least to some extent, in Mindscapes. Particularly psionic combat which is now decent, imho.

Power scaling helps a bit with the powers knows/powers useable issue and there are feats to allow upgrading through chains.

I don't want psions being the front line butt-kickers, so not being the best (or even terribly good) at smooshing the enemy isn't a big deal to me.

MAD is always a concern. Monks and Paladins are in there on that one too.

Edit: I guess I should make whatever point I'm trying to make.

For those who have more experience than I with Psionics, and taking Mindscapes into account, how much retooling does Psionics require in a low magic world? If Psionics are indeed inherently weaker, they would not need as much as magic but if they are on par or very near to magic then just as much work is required.

I'm hoping to avoid the "Psionics Sucks" thread, if at all possible. I've heard many stories of psionics being just as grand as magic when used correctly, so they can't suck that badly.

 

[LostSoul]

Psychic Warrior is a good class, so you'd need to do something to scale them back. When a Psi Warrior is fully buffed up, watch out.

 

[(Psi)SeveredHead]

Without using house rules, psions require magic stat-boosting items to be effective.

To make such a campaign, you have to house-rule MAD into something that makes sense, such as what you find in Mindscapes

 

[reiella]

As stated, pretty much if you want the low-magic feel to 'lower general' power level, you need to correspondingly lower psionics.

Although in general, you won't see nearly as much psionic items and similiar content in a 'normal' world so you would have less work to actually 'make it work' and fit in.

The level of psionic balance is a matter of opinion and view. The best way to approach it is to use your experience and opinion on the matter. Just be sure that the class is balanced relative to everyone else.

As mentioned above, Psy War are a fairly strong class (it's around the same 'power level' as clerics generally, and it may be necessary to limit it somewhat (I'd look at psionic feats myself to 'hinder' it or possibly just enforce long meditiation/quests to get new powers).

Personally I don't have Mindscapes so I'm not too sure on the changes it makes, but from what I've seen the changes are mostly to Psionic Combat. If Psi/Non-Psi is still useful, you may want to downplay some of the Psi Combat Modes (Mindblast leaps to mind), although I wouldn't try to fiddle too much with how they interact between two Psychics.

The big thing at least, is to make sure hte players realize it's low-magic/psi, so they can plan around that (Pre-planning for Psions is one of the harshest in my opinion).

 

[Victim]

Even unaltered psions would be dangerous in a low magic world. The psion's 2 favored areas are divinations and charms, since they get scrying and most enchantment spells at lower levels than wizards. Without common magic items like Cloaks of Resistance, telepathy becomes a lot more powerful. Similarly, the lack of magical defenses - combined with the common complaint about divinations ruining mystery plots - would make clairsentience a spoiling discipline.

Another thing to consider is that, in a low magic game, wizards probably won't be using Tome and Blood or FRCS for Greater Spell Focus and Persistent Spell. Psions have those abilities right out of the box. Persistent Power is potentially unbalancing.