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5E Psionics in Tasha

dave2008

Legend
There's been suggestions of remote viewing, telekinesis, people bending spoons & monks slowing down their metabolism to endure sub-zero temperatures, etc IRL. This to me is closer to psionics than calling it magic.
IMO, that is all BS. Anything in that realm that has been scientifically observed as been shown to be false, trickery or flat out lies. That kind of stuff has been talked about in martial arts for years (I've practice a MA a bit myself), and it is mostly lies to make martial artist seem more mysterious and powerful. Thus, if you want to do them - its magic.

However, I do acknowledge the mind can do fairly amazing things with ones own mindy/body. However, telekinetic powers, attacking other creatures, or really anything that affects another object or creature - 100% magic.

As far as I remember 5E doesnt use the supernatural designation anymore does it? Up until 3E Psionics were separated from magic, was its own system and added its own flavor to the game, thats why non-psionicists had very little defense against psionic powers.
I personally don't mind psionics having different game mechanics (I liked the psionic die), but it would still be magic by a different name. In fact I could see several different types of magic having different game mechanics: arcane, divine, and psionic magic could all have different mechanics if you ask me.
 
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dnd4vr

The Smurfiest Wizard Ever!
I'm sorry, but I find this logic painfully nonsensical. 'It's not magic, I just use mental tecniques to levitate things.' That's bloody magic, mate!
LOL, don't be. You are totally entitled to your view as I am to mine. No worries. :)

I think the things that do overlap would intereact, but there are things psionics could have (like the Mind Flayer's psionic blast) that would not interact with magic.

Finally, I have never liked psionics as a class or subclass. I like the 1E random powers you might get but was super-rare. So, whatever form psionics takes it will likely not see much use if any in my games. 🤷‍♂️
 

Agree, it can use the same "base" system as long as it doesnt use components, cant be dispelled and isnt called a spell. As clunky as the 1E & 2E psionic systems were, they felt totally different because of the mechanics they used. Its all about the flavor of the class and its powers. If theyre just magic it another magic using class then I think its a missed opportunity.
The part I agree with is that thematically psionics probably shouldn't use components, at least material components. Those make more sense if you're channeling the power from somewhere else rather than using your innate abilities.
 

dave2008

Legend
But it wasn't spells. It's not magic in the sense that cleric, sorcerers, every other caster uses it. It was using internal mind energy, not calling upon external power to do things.
What wasn't spells? I mean just because you don't call something a "spell," doesn't mean it is not a spell. I don't care about the mechanics or what you call things. What ever makes people happy is fine with me.

I don't personally see why people are all worked up about what you call it how it functions. If you call it a psion, its a psion to me. My only preference for using a different mechanic is simple to have another mechanic, I new design space to explore.
 



Istbor

Dances with Gnolls
Ugh, psionics again... Err! I mean, yeah! Hooray for those that actually want this!

Though right now, these just look like spells that have the psychic damage type. Who knows if there is actually #Psionics coming?

I also don't think it would be a terrible thing personally. No new system to learn. Plus I have too many bad memories of psionics from past editions. It was only ever fun if the whole party went psionics.
 


dave2008

Legend
Aren't you conflating two things there?

People definitely said they didn't want Psionics using an entirely new mechanic, but I don't recall them also saying that people wanted Psionics to use the spell mechanics, just not something new like Psi die. I think I'd have remember if WotC claimed people wanted Psionic spells, because I'd have been incensed.
Could be, I wasn't trying to make a definitive statement and I haven't cared enough to remember. It seems you care, so I would take your word on it.

I agree that there is, but my concern is that when you start making psionic spells, especially calling them things like "Tasha's Mind Whip" (not Mind Whip), you're very clearly establishing them as spells, and they can't really be re-used as psionics without creating a new, separate system, which WotC don't want to do.
Sure. I think the would have been best served, if they are going with psionics as spells, to make a completely separate spell list and keep the psionic flavor of the names. I don't have any issue filing off "tasha" or what ever, but I know it bothers others and it would be an easy way to appease (if not satisfy) multiple parties.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
What wasn't spells? I mean just because you don't call something a "spell," doesn't mean it is not a spell. I don't care about the mechanics or what you call things. What ever makes people happy is fine with me.

I don't personally see why people are all worked up about what you call it how it functions. If you call it a psion, its a psion to me. My only preference for using a different mechanic is simple to have another mechanic, I new design space to explore.
Spells have a certain meaning in common and D&D usage. They are cooked up or new prayers and generally invoke outside power to enact.

What psionics does are not spells. Powers, sure, but not spells.
 

dave2008

Legend
Spells have a certain meaning in common and D&D usage. They are cooked up or new prayers and generally invoke outside power to enact.

What psionics does are not spells. Powers, sure, but not spells.
That is your opinion. I think psionic powers have as much to do with spells as a cleric's prayers, but I don't see a lot of complaints about how cleric have spells and the same spell casting system as wizards (I actually think it would be cool to give clerics a completely different magic mechanic).

Just to be clear, there is no wrong or right answer. It is just our opinions. I don't have any issue with you wanting the psionics you want.
 


Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
Ugh, psionics again... Err! I mean, yeah! Hooray for those that actually want this!

I am amazed that, from what I see, WoTC has managed to release a Psionics system that will please almost no one that actually wants psionics.

I'm sure it will be fine for anyone that likes more stuff. Or more spells. More spells are cool. But it's not the psionics that anyone who actually wanted psionics was hoping for.

It would be like they released a Warlord, and just made the Warlord a new Wizard subclass. Sure, it's called a Warlord! And it has a lot of spells!

....but not exactly what the people who wanted a Warlord, wanted.
 

Cadence

Legend
Supporter
I think I'd be happier with psionics being non-magic if arcane magical spells and divine intercessionary/thaumaturgical miracles/prayers/invocations were different to the same extent too.

I'm trying to deal with the dissonance that in d&d psionics not being magic has always felt weird to me... but in super-hero comics they are clearly different.
 
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Cadence

Legend
Supporter
B fut...

View attachment 126574
Also from the Mind Flayer, cannot be countered or dispelled. It has no spell level equivalent. Yet, it is "magically" emitted, so Magic Resistance would still impact the Intelligence saving throw. If you take the word "magically" out of the description, it is no longer a magical effect, it becomes a "mental" effect.

So, IMO, WotC just handled it wrong from the beginning. We've had psionics since 1E and it doesn't have to be complex or difficult to use, but I don't think we'll see a non-magical psionics until 6E, unfortunately. :(

It feels a bit odd to me that psychic blasts affect the same damage taking pool that physical attacks do. Why should cure light wounds fix them, for example? It almost feels like there should be a separate mental hp pool with the will power stat adding on instead of con maybe.
 

dnd4vr

The Smurfiest Wizard Ever!
It feels a bit odd to me that psychic blasts affect the same damage taking pool that physical attacks do. Why should cure light wounds fix them, for example? It almost feels like there should be a separate mental hp pool with the will power stat adding on instead of con maybe.
Unfortunately it is a byproduct of the abstract nature of HP. Unless the HP mechanic changes, this sort of thing is going to happen. 🤷‍♂️
 

Istbor

Dances with Gnolls
I am amazed that, from what I see, WoTC has managed to release a Psionics system that will please almost no one that actually wants psionics.

I'm sure it will be fine for anyone that likes more stuff. Or more spells. More spells are cool. But it's not the psionics that anyone who actually wanted psionics was hoping for.

It would be like they released a Warlord, and just made the Warlord a new Wizard subclass. Sure, it's called a Warlord! And it has a lot of spells!

....but not exactly what the people who wanted a Warlord, wanted.
Well, then maybe this will allow psionics to die a noisy death. Would not affect me or the games I run in the slightest. Though I am sure some people would lament and gnash their teeth over it.
 

MiraMels

Explorer
I, for one, am glad that they are integrating psionics into the existing spellcasting system that literally every other class in the game uses. It's an excellent subsystem and it's just about as complex as i'd like the game to be.

5e's spellcasting can already portray academic wizardry, divine prayers, ancient druidic magic, ranger tricks, barbarian spirit warriors communing with nature, arcane science gizmos, and war magic. They can add "mysterious psychic powers" in there without breaking my suspension of disbelief.

If they wrote an entirely new mechanical subsystem to handle psionics, the only thing that would accomplish is ensuring that i never bother to learn or use it in my own games.
 

Snarf Zagyg

Notorious Liquefactionist
I, for one, am glad that they are integrating psionics into the existing spellcasting system that literally every other class in the game uses. It's an excellent subsystem and it's just about as complex as i'd like the game to be.

5e's spellcasting can already portray academic wizardry, divine prayers, ancient druidic magic, ranger tricks, barbarian spirit warriors communing with nature, arcane science gizmos, and war magic. They can add "mysterious psychic powers" in there without breaking my suspension of disbelief.

If they wrote an entirely new mechanical subsystem to handle psionics, the only thing that would accomplish is ensuring that i never bother to learn or use it in my own games.

D&D Designer A: So, we have this new thing we have to put in the game. Psionics.

D&D Designer B: Hmm... so, let's design something!

A: Yeah, let's do that!

B: What should we do? Something cool? Something new?

A: That sounds awesome! We should do something reflecting the long heritage of psionics in D&D!

....5 second pause....

A&B Together: Long peals of laughter

B: That was funny! So, spells?

A: Yep, spells.
 

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