D&D 5E Psionics in Tasha

[Remathilis]

To be Frank, if they were going to go for the "lazy" method of making them spells, why not go a step further and just redo the 3.5 psion as a spell-point spellcaster class? The 3.5 psion is already damn close to a wizard anyway, give them a custom spell list with the new spells, psi class abilities, subs for different disciplines, and your then do you psionic subs for other classes. They kept trying to reinvent 2e psionics with the mystic and when they finally gave up on it, skipped straight to spellcaster subclasses.

 

[Samloyal23]

[Pirated content removed - Morrus]

 

[jgsugden]

I think we've jumped the gun on a few things here.

I think what we're going to get is some of the foundation for a full psionics system in Tasha's, but only the foundation. We'll then get a product in 2021 that uses that material for full psionic class(es) design.

I think psionic spells will be a mechanic that the new psionic class uses, but that they'll introduce mechanics that differentiate them when the psionic classes use them, such as the psionic dice mechanic from UA or power points from prior editions.

I needed psionics for my game as it is an ongoing campaign setting that has spanned several editions. To provide it, I created a psionic sorcerer. It had very limited use, but worked fine.

The psionic origin:

(1) You can use Intelligence in the place of charisma for all purposes.
(1) You may use the still spell metamagic ability on all sorcerer class spells you cast for free.
(1) When you gain the Font of Magic ability, you may transform unexpended sorcerer points into spells (or spells into sorcery points) as a free action.
(1) When you transform spells into spell points, you gain the number of points indicated on the creating spell slots table. When turning slots of level 6 to 9 into spell slots (or slots into points), the ratio is 6th level is 9, 7th level is 10, 8th level is 11 and 9th level is 13.
(6) Psi Focus - You select one of 5 abilities based upon old school psionic disciplines (Telepathy, Psychportation, Psychometabolism, Metacreativity, Clairsentience). Each grants you early access to a higher level spell (5th level spells generally) and some special abilities for free.
(14) Psi Focus 2 - Either a second Psi Focus or access to greater powers from the psionic discipline you previously selected (9th level spells at 14th level plus at will lower level spells similar to Warlock invocations).
(18) Psi Focus 3 - Either a third Psi Focus, the 14th level ability of one of your two previously chosen Psi-Focuses, or Transcendence - The ability to become psionic energy (which allows for several things, mostly non-combat).

I also, of course, have versions of the classic psionic abilities written as spells. They require that you have the psionic origin, or a particular feat.

 

[Chaosmancer]

It doesn't have to be a unique rule to psionics. It just has to be a function of psionics. Breath weapons aren't a unique rule to dragons, but breath weapons are a function of dragons. There might be an exception out there, but the general rule is dragons have breath weapons.

This right here gets you so close to understanding this issue Max.

The tag "Dragon" does not mean that a creature has a breath weapon, or the ability to fly. "Dragon" does not carry any rules to that effect. Are they common elements to that tag? Sure, it is a common element. A "most likely" but they are not rules because traditionally in DnD, there are always a few creatures with that tag, without the breath weapon.

Hence, why once again, Psionics do not have any special rules attached to them. Why, at the end of the paragraph, they specifically say "A monster that has this tag typically doesn't require any components to cast its spells."

Is it a likely trait? Yes. Is it a guaranteed rule of that tag? No. It is not. If it were, they would not say that the tag has no special rules, and would not say that they "typically" don't require components. They would say "A monster that has this tag never requires any components to cast its spells."

That is the truth. You've found a likely pattern, a common trait that is likely, but not an iron-rule that must be followed.

 

[Maxperson]

This right here gets you so close to understanding this issue Max.

The tag "Dragon" does not mean that a creature has a breath weapon, or the ability to fly. "Dragon" does not carry any rules to that effect. Are they common elements to that tag? Sure, it is a common element. A "most likely" but they are not rules because traditionally in DnD, there are always a few creatures with that tag, without the breath weapon.

Hence, why once again, Psionics do not have any special rules attached to them. Why, at the end of the paragraph, they specifically say "A monster that has this tag typically doesn't require any components to cast its spells."

Is it a likely trait? Yes. Is it a guaranteed rule of that tag? No. It is not. If it were, they would not say that the tag has no special rules, and would not say that they "typically" don't require components. They would say "A monster that has this tag never requires any components to cast its spells."

That is the truth. You've found a likely pattern, a common trait that is likely, but not an iron-rule that must be followed.

It's semantics. So the lack of components is not attached to the tag. It is a property of psionics and not the psionic tag I guess. Despite many attempts at psionics in the UA and monster books, we have yet to see even a single instance where psionics doesn't involve a lack of components. If one comes along, I'll change my tune and then get really irked with WotC.

Also, re dragons. Exceptions do not disprove the rule. That's why they are EXCEPTIONS.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Exceptions do not disprove the rule.

Ya, they do.

 

[Maxperson]

Ya, they do.

Dude. You literally cannot have an exception if there is not a rule to have an exception to. Or put another way, since D&D is an exceptions based game, if exceptions disprove rules, D&D has no rules.

 

[Samloyal23]

Ya, they do.

Exceptions determine the outer parameters of a rule. A rule with no exceptions is broken.

As for psionics, take a look at the d20 Star Wars RPG rules for the Force, they are based on feats and skills, they could easily be expanded to include more powers and have a telepathic combat system added to them. Updating these rules for 5E would be relatively easy. There is no reason you could not make them transparent to magic without making them magical. Give a cross power proficiency penalty for trying to affect a different type of supernatural force. Make a not in a power's description if there are special ways to counteract or alter it. It is not that complicated.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Exceptions determine the outer parameters of a rule. A rule with no exceptions is broken.

Nonsense.

A "rule" that has exceptions is demonstrably false.

 

[Maxperson]

Nonsense.

A "rule" that has exceptions is demonstrably false.

Then your argument is that pretty much every D&D rule is false. Leave us in the middle nowhere, and with you being wrong.